RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Full Version)

Foro Flamenco: http://www.foroflamenco.com/
- Challenges: http://www.foroflamenco.com/default.asp?catApp=2
- - Spring 2015 - John Walsh Soleá: http://www.foroflamenco.com/in_forum.asp?forumid=46
- - - RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!!: http://www.foroflamenco.com/fb.asp?m=276616



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Sr. Martins -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 8 2015 19:40:13)

Let's see if we can all vote this week. John has better things to do, Iam sure. [:D]

7 to go.



El Kiko -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 8 2015 20:00:14)

voting is open till when ? ...
you vote by deleting your original entry post .. yes
.
and vote including your own entry ...?

i think i got it

Damn it .. my new little microphone just arrived now by post ... bad timing ...



Sr. Martins -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 8 2015 20:17:48)

quote:

voting is open till when ? ...
you vote by deleting your original entry post .. yes
.
and vote including your own entry ...?


Until the 14th or when everyone has voted. We're only seven at this point.

Yes, you edit your original post and vote on all tracks.



Leñador -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 9 2015 0:56:51)

My vote is in. Very tough one this. We all did pretty good.



Sr. Martins -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 9 2015 1:32:16)

Done!



ToddK -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 9 2015 5:01:12)

Just listened.
Huge applause for the effort and willingness to go for it.
i had fun listening to the attempts, and am very proud
of everyone's progress.
I think this solea was just too much to handle, however, i also
think it was a good challenge because it pushed you all beyond
your limits, and that is something players must do often.
Ole' to all!



Leñador -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 9 2015 10:35:35)

That's the best we could've hoped for. Thanks Todd!



xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 9 2015 14:39:12)

I'm also done voting!



athrane77 -> [Deleted] (Jul. 9 2015 14:41:56)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Dec. 7 2015 21:03:41



El Kiko -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 9 2015 18:33:58)

quote:

and am very proud
of everyone's progress.



Praise from Cesar .....[sm=tongue.gif][sm=tongue.gif][sm=tongue.gif]

I will put mine in tonight in an hour or so ...
i made some notes for comments but not the marks yet .. so first i have o eat .. then listen again and leave my heartfelt advice ...


in about an hour or so ...

after stir fry ....

and the kids throwing noodles around ...



Dudnote -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 9 2015 22:52:28)

Very cool listening to all the entries today. Different interpretations, different feelings - although there is one clear winner it's not so easy picking out the second and third places. My votes are in.



Sr. Martins -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 9 2015 23:40:37)

I think that the voting method or maybe the guidelines aren't really working out. I understand we're all different people but when it comes to judging something objectively we "shouldn't" be so far apart in our comments. If this was the "make up your falseta challenge", that would be expected but this isn't the case at all.

If we did a "John Walsh Challenge Rematch" we would probably have most entries at 75bpm just "to be safe" and get some strings... that wasn't really the point of the competition but Iam feeling that that's what we are encouraging.



Leñador -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 10 2015 0:31:19)

I think it's going fine, organizing humans is like herding cats. People will NEVER do exactly what you've got pictured in your head, you'll only ever get an approximation. Everyone will always interperete everything a little differently. To be honest probably from the outset I was picturing something different from you and everyone else is landing somewhere in between.

Who's the two entries that didn't submit a recording??? Francisco Vega and Siliconsoniquette??



Sr. Martins -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 10 2015 0:50:07)

Whatever the reason is, the organizers are still the ones to blame. Maybe next time they'll do it better.



Leñador -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 10 2015 0:55:58)

Other challenges have gone just the same no biggy, all and all, comparatively, this was pretty successful. ****s starting to hit the fan at work for me so likely I won't be organizing OR competing for a good while to come.

My spreadsheet so far, when I find out who didn't compete I'll delete em and make her purdy.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-LOls1J8zeR4gW2ohXQ5Ug-W4NW-Uvfh_-z_x7UBvXs/edit?usp=docslist_api



Sr. Martins -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 10 2015 1:02:26)

quote:

My spreadsheet so far, when I find out who didn't compete I'll delete em and make her purdy.


Don't forget that there's a final stage.. erasing and revealing. If someone doesn't do that, his voting shall be deleted.



Which reminds me... what was the deadline for this final stage? Next friday?



Sr. Martins -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 10 2015 1:06:17)

And for F$%&'s sake... half points Dudnote? That's the same as if we all voted from 0-20... but we chose 0-10, didn't we?

For this, I hope you don't win.




[:D]



Leñador -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 10 2015 1:07:15)

Oh god a third stage, I forgot about that. I say people have 24 hours after john votes to fess up to who they are.....



Sr. Martins -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 10 2015 1:14:52)

Well, John is voting as soon as we have all 7. In case we don't get all the people to vote, John is voting on Tuesday 14th.

15th is the deadline then?



Leñador -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 10 2015 2:44:50)

If love to just say 24 hours after john in case things happen early but we'll go with the 15th.
I'm in Mexico starting the 16th so my internet is gunna be spotty.....



Dudnote -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 10 2015 8:44:48)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins

And for F$%&'s sake... half points Dudnote? That's the same as if we all voted from 0-20... but we chose 0-10, didn't we?

For this, I hope you don't win.




[:D]

That's vicious Rui 😆 The difficulty with a 1 to 10 scale is was anyone really so bad as to merit 1 or 2, or so good as to merit 9 or 10? Not in my book, so you're left with 3 to 8. When I scored a bunch of my own recordings most of the were 6 6, but the variation was huge 😂. How about a judge the judges competition? Hope you don't win either mate!!



Sr. Martins -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 10 2015 16:33:08)

quote:

Hope you don't win either mate!!


Let's settle this... with a palmas challenge.



El Kiko -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 10 2015 19:50:48)

quote:

If we did a "John Walsh Challenge Rematch" we would probably have most entries at 75bpm just "to be safe" and get some strings... that wasn't really the point of the competition but Iam feeling that that's what we are encouraging.


I gotta say i do agree with this line of thought , i dont think it should be safe... flamenco shouldnt be safe ... it should be risky ...
you do your best then dive in ,,.. what happens happens , you control it the best you can , and that shows your level ..

Yes .. we should all have played it at 1 note per second ...



Dudnote -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 10 2015 21:20:23)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins

quote:

Hope you don't win either mate!!

Let's settle this... with a palmas challenge.

And may the fastest man win!



Sr. Martins -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 10 2015 23:30:52)

quote:

Yes .. we should all have played it at 1 note per second ...


The challenge was clearly about cloning as best as you can and adding your little personal seasoning. Speed is obviously connected to difficulty and that was the Technique part of the voting. An half assed job at 120bpm shouldn't score lower than a "slightly above half assed" job at 60bpm... I know it's all very relative/subjective but I think you can get the point when I say that for some reason this system has failed for this kind of challenge.

In my opinion, people didn't pay much attention to what was the intent/scope of the challenge and just voted like they would in other challenges. Maybe we didn't put much emphasis on that.. I don't know.

But yeah, it's kind of frustrating to me when I look at the comments and the numbers... to be honest, most of them don't make much sense and I believe some participants must be a little pissed and thinking "What was this guy's criteria?" when comparing votes and comments.



Do you think that having a "listen, let it settle and then vote" period and then having everyone voting anonymously to a weblink would help in any way?

Suggestions are welcome.



Leñador -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 11 2015 0:20:40)

I think you hit the nail on the head with the word subjective. How much importance does one place on cleanliness. I'm probably way on the other spectrum than you. If it doesn't sound musical it lacks "aire" and if your flubbing notes it lacks "technique". For me, personally, being at or close to the original speed is a much lower priority than playing musically and cleanly when it comes to "replicating a falseta". In other words for ME and maybe me only, I think five mistakes at speed is not as replicated as 2 mistakes 20% slower. But that's just me, I don't mid that everyone voted with there own priorities in mind.



Sr. Martins -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 11 2015 1:13:01)

If that was to be the premise of the challenge, there wouldn't be anything remotely challenging. We would all play one note per second as Kiko said and the one with the best sounding recording would take the strings.



Leñador -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 11 2015 2:51:34)

And if everyone played it note for note no mistakes whoever played it fastest with no mistakes would win.



Sr. Martins -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 11 2015 4:44:11)

Exactly, that was the challenge in this challenge.. otherwise its like a soccer tournament where you win either by scoring the most goals or by being the team with the most fairplay..or a car race where no one cares about being the fastest.

Iam not against anything, I just dont think it would be challenging.

Since we had a clear objective in this challenge, the judging shouldn't be so all over the place. Personal preference should've been a small factor. That's the reason I see it as a fail.


Maybe we should've opened two categories, one at 90bpm and one at 120bpm or something like that.


You can look at it any way you want but to me, everything worked smoothly except the parameters for voting. If we ever do a similar challenge, this part will need some thought.



El Kiko -> RE: !!!John Walsh Solea Falseta Challenge!!! (Jul. 11 2015 7:36:56)

quote:

The challenge was clearly about cloning as best as you can and adding your little personal seasoning. S

agree agian and tempo would play its part ...
some things , to me , dont make as much sense when they are slowed down ...and back to tempo seem to come alive more ..
just play a bulerias at 90 or 100 and see how exciting it is ..

strange the other day i was listening to a really old blues acoustic recording from 1920'something .all crackly and that the guy was going at a pretty good pace and there were so many duff notes and glitches .. and this was his own song ! ..however it went along just fine .. loved it .cos he really had the feel of the ol' acoustic original blues ...mistakes and all ..

still ... horses for courses ...and que sera



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