My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Full Version)

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tk -> My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 20 2015 23:23:47)

I know it is not flamenco but Paco Pena plays it too [8|]



Be nice, it is not perfect and I welcome constructive criticism as usual.


[&:]



rombsix -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 21 2015 0:03:51)

quote:

I know it is not flamenco but Paco Pena plays it too


Make it more flamenco, and use p-iami tremolo. [;)]

Be careful with 2:02 & 2:40 (same part). I think you've learned it incorrectly at that part (which is repeated twice). I think you are missing some notes, and so the rhythm gets off. Otherwise, of course it needs to be cleaner and the dynamics need to be improved. It's a pretty tough piece, so not anyone can get through it like you did. Congratulations! [:)]



BarkellWH -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 21 2015 1:12:21)

quote:

I know it is not flamenco but Paco Pena plays it too


Good work. Continue working on it and perfecting it using the classical tremolo. My advice is DO NOT use the flamenco tremolo p-iami. Francisco Tarrega composed it with the classical tremolo, and it should be learned and perfected using the classical tremolo.

A few years ago I began working on Recuerdos using the flamenco tremolo because I found the flamenco tremolo easier to maintain a steady, dead-on tremolo than the classical, and I still do. Nevertheless, to play Recuerdos using the flamenco tremolo slows it down and throws off the timing. If you want it to sound the way Tarrega meant it to sound, and the way you hear it played at its best, play it using the classical tremolo.

Bill



Ricardo -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 21 2015 1:14:02)

Nice job, tough tune. Classical piece and your right hand is fine for that (in flamenco tremolo we rest the thumb more). Is that a real Miguel Rodriguez guitar? It's probably not compensated so you have some little intonation issues that you need to work on left hand wise. Careful of pulling certain notes sharp...assuming strings and tuning (oh god!) are good initially, you might need to make an effort to push (toward bridge) some of those notes, especially on 3rd string, up higher.

Ricardo



tk -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 21 2015 1:22:03)

Thanks.

Yes it is Miguel Rodriguez 1987.


Ricardo Can you please clarify this sentence more ?

" It's probably not compensated so you have some little intonation issues that you need to work on left hand wise. "

Thanks Ramzi. I tried Flamenco tremolo and it did not sound good.

TK



Sr. Martins -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 21 2015 1:26:31)

quote:

tuning (oh god!)


Would you believe that I thought about asking why the intonation seemed way off and immediately got back to the "me being stupid for not enjoying Paco" thread instead of typing anything here? [sm=lol.gif]



Dudnote -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 21 2015 1:33:56)

Appart from the tuning being slightly off, I really enjoyed listenning to this. A little move variation in dynamics maybe.



Sr. Martins -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 21 2015 1:40:40)

Liked this a lot, it even reminded me to get back into practicing tremolo because after that Granados tremolo I kinda left it behind but this seems like a fun piece to practice, hope it isn't too advanced.

Without engaging into any tuning debate, it is much more off than "slightly", that's the only downside... specially when you go to the upper frets.



Dudnote -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 21 2015 3:42:49)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins
Without engaging into any tuning debate, it is much more off than "slightly", that's the only downside... specially when you go to the upper frets.

and that's coming from a man that first says he has "a relitively big one" but later admits "I think I have a small one".

If there is such a thing as being relatively in tune then perhaps you were (but that's coming from a guy that has to guess if the beats have stopped [:(])

But for sure, you video is relatively great. [:D]



minorthang -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 21 2015 11:01:02)

tk that was and is awesome so much study - the tremlo is strange not used in so much classical rep - but u have it down-- maybe some peope may be interested to how u developed it ?

not that i can play at that level yet maybe a little slower and milk the notes use agogic accent too outline cadential movement from section to section (outlining the phrases ) or sections

great stuff really great



Leñador -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 21 2015 13:18:05)

Amazing stamina man! Good work!



Miguel de Maria -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 21 2015 15:04:31)

It really sounds 100X better when you play the dynamics as indicated in the score. Try it and listen to both versions side by side, you'll see.



tk -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 21 2015 16:46:44)

Thanks all for the nice and constructive comments.

There are some classical pieces; that no matter what kind of music player you are, you should attempt to play them. They never go bad....[;)] Recuerdos is for sure one of them.

Listening back, I clearly agree that I had to tune the guitar better next time [8|]

TK



hamia -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 21 2015 21:15:06)

I prefer versions where the players slow down at the end of each phrase (eg yepes).

You also played some wrong notes.



tk -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 21 2015 21:17:13)

quote:

You also played some wrong notes.


Can you pinpoint which notes please or where?

thanks



Lorenzo714 -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 21 2015 23:36:16)

I think you did an outstanding job!!! Wish my tremolo was that good [:D]



Ricardo -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 22 2015 1:24:38)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tk

Thanks.

Yes it is Miguel Rodriguez 1987.


Ricardo Can you please clarify this sentence more ?

" It's probably not compensated so you have some little intonation issues that you need to work on left hand wise. "

Thanks Ramzi. I tried Flamenco tremolo and it did not sound good.

TK


To clarify...since you already admitted you need to tune "better", let me just say that it is not so noticeable a problem down in low position as up higher (as you are tuned in this video)....there is a thread on here about "compensation"... a topic of which I learned that many old heavy weight luthiers (such as Reyes or Conde etc) did NOT compensate guitars, but almost all modern luthiers do...that means they adjust the bridge to let the notes play a hair FLATTER as you go up the neck...since MANY players are not careful about the rubber bandy feel as they go up and tend to make the notes go sharp because the strings bend over the frets and change pitch very easily.

I was making an educated guess that your guitar is not compensated...it being from a heavy weight old school spanish luthier....but it could also be the strings or....YOUR PLAYING. I think you could try several things, but I encourage attempting to play in tune using left hand technique vs having a vintage guitar modified (as it seems many folks have been doing lately).

Anyway, as long as YOU can hear the issue in your video I am sure you will discover a solution on your own. Again nice work after all.

Ricardo



tk -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 22 2015 16:41:07)

quote:

I think you did an outstanding job!!! Wish my tremolo was that good


Thank you Lorenzo.



tk -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 22 2015 16:43:47)

quote:

To clarify...since you already admitted you need to tune "better", let me just say that it is not so noticeable a problem down in low position as up higher (as you are tuned in this video)....there is a thread on here about "compensation"... a topic of which I learned that many old heavy weight luthiers (such as Reyes or Conde etc) did NOT compensate guitars, but almost all modern luthiers do...that means they adjust the bridge to let the notes play a hair FLATTER as you go up the neck...since MANY players are not careful about the rubber bandy feel as they go up and tend to make the notes go sharp because the strings bend over the frets and change pitch very easily.


Ricardo, thank you for the clarification. That makes complete sense. I will look further into this. Thanks again



Sr. Martins -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 22 2015 16:53:10)

You could try compensating on the saddle bone if it isn't already. I guess it won't be enough on that particular guitar but it's better than nothing.


Anyways, the problem could also be defective strings. Try some D'Addarios.



Cervantes -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 22 2015 23:49:09)

That is pretty impressive for an attempt.
As Dudnote mentioned it needs more dynamics, it sounds all too even.
Listen to some really good classical guitarists playing it.
I have been working hard on my flamenco tremolo and making good progress.
Still i would not be able to play this anywhere near as good as you did.



tk -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 22 2015 23:54:34)

quote:

That is pretty impressive for an attempt.
As Dudnote mentioned it needs more dynamics, it sounds all too even.
Listen to some really good classical guitarists playing it.
I have been working hard on my flamenco tremolo and making good progress.
Still i would not be able to play this anywhere near as good as you did.


Thanks Cervantes. When it comes to dynamics, it becomes more of a matter of taste. See, I love john williams, his playing style and it is in general perceived by many to be "cold". I actually wanted to play this piece in a way that it sounded "all too even" as you say. I thought, if it was a "tremolo etude", Tarrega wanted it to be "even".

But since more than one individual suggested different dynamics, i am going to record this piece with different dynamics and see how it is going to sound.



rombsix -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 23 2015 4:43:17)

quote:

Thanks Ramzi. I tried Flamenco tremolo and it did not sound good.




Read the rest of my feedback also, and you will find answers to some other questions you asked about other posters' feedback. [:)] (that is, "wrong notes")

Compare what I referenced to what John does here...



Cheers!



tk -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 23 2015 4:56:47)

quote:


quote:

Thanks Ramzi. I tried Flamenco tremolo and it did not sound good.




Yes, exactly my point. The flamenco tremolo slows down the piece significantly and that's why I don't like it.



tk -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 23 2015 5:06:36)

quote:

Read the rest of my feedback also, and you will find answers to some other questions you asked about other posters' feedback. (that is, "wrong notes")


can you be more specific on this please?



rombsix -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 23 2015 5:39:48)

I think you can get a decent tempo with p-iami if you practice.

Specifics on feedback: "2:02 & 2:40 (same part). I think you've learned it incorrectly at that part (which is repeated twice). I think you are missing some notes, and so the rhythm gets off."

Review the score, my friend. Go over it note by note, and go over what you do in the video. You will then understand...



Ruphus -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 23 2015 9:45:05)

Just for the heck of it.
I own an estudio from Miguel Rodriguez label which was likely built by Vicente Sanchis though. But as building from that time was mentioned:
Two things that were most remarkable to me with this guitar have been
# how much it bears the typical sound that I am familar with from recordings with concert level M.R. guitars. It lacks the immediacy and crispness of a top notch instrument, but other than that typical sound characteristics of M.R. are quite there.
# the intonation. It was what stuck out the most to me. It is better than with any other of my nylon stringed guitars, and I own some really fine ones.

Ruphus



BarkellWH -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 23 2015 11:21:15)

quote:

Yes, exactly my point. The flamenco tremolo slows down the piece significantly and that's why I don't like it.


As I wrote in my comment at the beginning of this thread: "Continue working on it and perfecting it using the classical tremolo. My advice is do not use the flamenco tremolo p-iami. Francisco Tarrega composed it with the classical tremolo, and it should be learned and perfected using the classical tremolo...to play Recuerdos using the flamenco tremolo slows it down and throws off the timing."

You have noted the same thing. The flamenco tremolo changes the tempo significantly, and there is no way, nor need there be, to compensate for that.

You are doing a great job with Recuerdos as it is, TK. Keep up the good work. I look forward to the final, polished product.

Cheers,

Bill



Miguel de Maria -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 23 2015 14:50:04)

It is an etude, but it is marked with dynamics by the composer. Try those first. There is a reason he put them there. They're part of the piece. I tell this to my 6 year old daughter all the time, and sometimes she listens.



Mark2 -> RE: My attempt for Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Apr. 23 2015 15:52:48)

Mariano Cordoba taught it to me with the flamenco tremolo, which he preferred. He felt the piece worked better with the slower tempo, as it allowed him to express more emotion. Are there any tempo indications on the original score? If not, the composer's intention in regards to tempo are not clear. If so, then obviously the classical tremolo and the tempo it allows surely is in line with his intention. But even that, to me, is not a reason not to use the flamenco tremolo and play it slower if that results in a more satisfying experience for the player. But I never spent much time studying classical guitar, and I know those folks can be as particular about what is permissible as flamencos are about compas.



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