RE: nino de pura (Full Version)

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Guest -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 13 2005 22:14:37)

I agree with you Ricardo, Paco is incredible. In his documentary you have Sanlucar, Tomatito, Viejin, Niño Ricardo though the story of his daughter etc. saying how good he is and how unique he is and what he has done for la guitarra flamenca. For me he is like Led Zeppelin where you have so much good songs that sound different but you know its Zeppelin whereas as the majority of the rest (Paco is not the only genius with awesome teqnique of course) sound like Aerosmith, they have good songs but ...haven't we heard something like this before? What do you think about Gitanos Andaluces? Isn't he using tradional key but in a very unique way? To me that piece is genius, who before him does thing like that?

Saludos,

German



Doitsujin -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 13 2005 22:15:12)

That was me( The post over the post above, not the post with the name:german.... aaah..how complicated... Im too tired to check that I was loged out.. and the desire to make contorted jokes becomes stronger in me..I better go to bed. Good night all. (=_=)



koella -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 13 2005 22:15:18)

Guest, do you mean deutschtsjuin or me?



Doitsujin -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 13 2005 22:20:15)

Yes before gitanos Andaluces Riqueni made a crazy disc. Juego de ninos..or so. I cant remember the name. There were the most advanced compositions on this disc for this time period. oh I see now.. paco released gitanos a. 5years before riqueni. hmm..
Hey my name is Doitsujin! [:@]



koella -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 13 2005 22:21:39)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Guest

Just strange humor.... ehh really strange unique humor. [&:] I didnt find a person in my whole life who understands it...


Maybe you should go abroad sometime[sm=Smiley Guitar.gif]



Guest -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 13 2005 22:39:29)

SORRY !!! I MEAN theme : CEPA ANDALUZA, from Fuente Y Caudal !! It was release in early 70s, before Riqueni Juego de Niños



koella -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 13 2005 22:43:09)

Schon wieder vergessen ein-zu-loggen Deutschuin? (sorry too much wine[:D])



koella -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 13 2005 22:47:46)

What do you mean off-topic?



Guest -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 13 2005 22:49:30)

SORRY !!! I MEAN the theme : CEPA ANDALUZA, from Fuente Y Caudal !! It was release in early 70s, before Riqueni Juego de Niños . In my post before I said Gitanos Andaluces.



koella -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 13 2005 22:51:55)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Guest

SORRY !!! I MEAN the theme : CEPA ANDALUZA, from Fuente Y Caudal !! It was release in early 70s, before Riqueni Juego de Niños . In my post before I said Gitanos Andaluces.


OK, don't make a fuzz Doltsjiun...........Sleep well...



Miguel de Maria -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 13 2005 23:18:55)

Ron--
what a strange experience! Didn't you say you heard Serranito and he wasn't playing well? My friend Miguel met him years ago and they hit it off...in his opinion Serranito was an incredible player, and he said he could do some things that only Paco could do. Listening to Serranito's albums, the player you saw and the one recorded almost sound like different people too.

When I heard Paco Pena I was a bit disappointed. His picados sounded weak to me... (since we are talkinga bout picados). The funny thing is that guys who have gone to his school and have taken lessons from him were laughing because he plays so, so hard... I wonder if the recording medium is so different from the distance of being in concert that we get unrealistic expectations.



koella -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 13 2005 23:35:55)

I heard a concert of Paco Pena solo a few years ago in Uden ,Noord-Brabant, Holland.
Without a microphone or anything. Just acoustic. He seemed bored (it was in uden,noordbrabant, holland[:D]). But he didn't play hard. But what amazed me is that on on his records he sounds more aggresive then he can accomplish in a live situation.



Escribano -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 13 2005 23:45:10)

quote:

Some F1-pilots drive the whole parcour in their imagination before the race


My brother-in-law and nephew race and it's an Xbox or PS-2[:D]



Escribano -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 13 2005 23:48:59)

quote:

Maybe you should go abroad sometime


He did, I think. That's how he got his knickname[;)]



koella -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 13 2005 23:49:08)

My kids have a nintendo.
They play Mario double-dash.



Escribano -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 13 2005 23:50:27)

quote:

He seemed bored (it was in uden,noordbrabant, holland)


Yep, that would do it[:D]



Escribano -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 13 2005 23:51:43)

I meant they really do race, real race cars but practise the circuit, racing-line, gears, throttle, brakes etc. many times on a console.



Conrad -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 14 2005 1:39:29)

Ricardo's spot on here. Bandera is the only one who is close to Paco. Paco is a deity, with not a deficiency of any kind in his musical soul. If only Paco realized that, poor guy is so humble and perfectionist. Everyone should watch his last DVD to learn more about the man.

-Connie



Grisha -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 14 2005 1:46:18)

I saw Paco Peña at my teacher´s house this April. He plays pretty hard and loud! My playing was crap at that time because I had no nails... Oh well...



flamencoguru -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 14 2005 2:06:21)

I would have to agree with Grisha about Paco Peña's playing. He play very agressive and hard. Juan Miguel Gonzalez (the luthier from Almeria) and I were in Cordoba this summer. Anyway, Juan Miguel went to Paco Peña's house so that he could try out one of his guitars. He said that Paco's playing was so hard that he was afraid he was going to break his guitar in two!!!

Paco Peña has that old-school rawness in his playing. I like that raw sound and playing style.

Un saludo, Errol



Miguel de Maria -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 14 2005 2:51:37)

What about Manolo Sanlucar? It doesn't sound like he plays that hard, but his technique is so fluid and it sounds just perfect to me. His picado rolls....and he uses his thumb so well. I only have two of his albums, Mundo Y Formas with the Malaguena on it, and Tauromagia. What a player!



Florian -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 14 2005 2:53:38)

I forghot what the original post was about but in the Franciso Sanchez dvd , the second disk, Rodrigues concert, the Solo, DUo, Trio part


Banderas picado were nowhere near Canizares'es , i dont know recently but at that stage and in that concert Canizares picado stood out proabably even more then Paco's.


If Canizares didnt play such weird modes all the time he would be up there, he would certanly get more recognition, hes faster and clearer then TOmatito, Vicente and many others.

Not that any of this means anything at the end of the day, if your music says nothing



Ricardo -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 14 2005 8:57:57)

quote:

Banderas picado were nowhere near Canizares'es , i dont know recently but at that stage and in that concert Canizares picado stood out proabably even more then Paco's.



I feel the opposite. Canizares was fast, but did not have the controlled sound the other guys had. And there was one fast rumba, where Banderas took it up a notch in his improv solo and played a much faster rhythm than the other guys were doing with the picado. You almost don't realize it because he is so laid back and in the groove. I will find the spot again, but pretty much it was like the other guys did 16th triplets, and Banderas did 32nds. Also, in Zyrab, there was a reason why the speedy trade off's were done by Banderas. I have seen them both with Paco live. Canizares missed notes sometimes, but Banderas was half asleep playing it. But we are splitting hairs here, like which GOD of the guitar is the boss. My point is this: A lot of folks that like flamenco guitar, have their own tastes or whatever, fine. But why say Paco is not so great? I mean it is fine to say you don't like his work or whatever, but you like "so and so" better or he PLAYS better than Paco? Just keep in mind the list of Paco's biggest fans: Tomatito, Moraito, V.Amigo, Nunez, Canizares, E. de Melchor, Cepero, Chicuelo, Nino Josele, Banderas, M. Sanlucar, J. Conde, Grisha, Todd, etc..........

Ricardo



Guest -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 14 2005 9:08:07)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Guest

SORRY !!! I MEAN the theme : CEPA ANDALUZA, from Fuente Y Caudal !! It was release in early 70s, before Riqueni Juego de Niños . In my post before I said Gitanos Andaluces.


I didnt wrote that.



Doitsujin -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 14 2005 9:08:36)

ups..



Ron.M -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 14 2005 9:13:05)

quote:

Didn't you say you heard Serranito and he wasn't playing well?


No Miguel,
He played well, I was just surprised how quietly he played...more like a Classical player. His picado runs weren't so clean as on his recordings, but it didn't matter somehow...he has a way of making it flow.
Yeah...it's a shame about the Paco concert...but he must just have had an off night.
It wasn't dire or anything, but very much short of his usual standard.
That's just the way it goes.
In a way it's sort of encouraging to know that even the top players can have times where they can't get it together and that they are not superhuman but ordinary mortals like the rest of us.
I heard a funny story about John Williams a while ago on the radio...
A guy was saying that when he and fellow guitarists are hanging out jamming and talking that John screws up as much as the next guy....but when he gets up on stage he plays flawlessly....."How does he do that?", he said, ..."...like I mean...how does he do that?" [:D]

cheers

Ron



Florian -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 14 2005 10:58:27)

Ricardo , i hope you not saying that i said " Paco is not so greate" because i would never in my wildest dreams ever say anything like that.

I might say i dont like something someone does but i would never assume to put limitations on what he can and cannot do.

And for the record i like Pacos recent stuff alot, I couldnt think of another person that could be " Paco"



Miguel de Maria -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 14 2005 15:13:39)

Ron,
I have never heard that John Williams ever makes errors, even in practice... but I have heard lots of crazy stories about how he never does.

Supposedly Manuel Barrueco, another of the greats, went to his concert, and Williams afterwards asked him if he had liked it. "No," said Manuel. "No? Sorry..?" "I was waiting for you to make one, just one mistake, and you didn't!"

Another story was that a composer I believe spent two weeks with Williams and never saw him pick up the guitar. Then he played a concert flawlessly at the end of that time. (Paco also claims not to practice in his biography by Paco Sevilla).

Another story involves Elliot Fisk, a flashy player of a younger generation than Williams. He was asked a question that said that now that you and some other new players have surpassed the technique of John Williams, what's next? And Fisk replied that no one has ever surpassed John Williams' technique. Seems kind of like Paco, no?



Grisha -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 14 2005 15:48:58)

OK, I played Bach's Chaconne for John Williams in his masterclass last April, after which he grabbed my guitar to illustrate some points he made about transcription (he didn't bring his own guitar to the class). Well, he was making lots of mistakes and seemed to be playing carelessly. Next evening he gave a concert (I couldn't make it) and I heard that it was just flawless. Strange, isn't it?

And please, please, PLEASE don't describe Eliot Fisk as a "flashy player". Although he does play very emotionally, he is an incredibly profound musician. He is one of the very few musicians (not only guitarists), who can bring tears to my eyes with their music. I know his playing very well as he has been my teacher for more than 5 years. Viva Eliot!



Miguel de Maria -> RE: nino de pura (Oct. 14 2005 16:12:43)

Grisha,
wow, what a story! What can you say? :)

As far as Fisk, no insult intended of course. I don't know much about Fisk, just through reputation.



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