Richard Jernigan -> RE: American Freedom? (Nov. 30 2012 22:23:05)
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ORIGINAL: Ruphus Richard to my understanding performs steep, prepared to face things all around, including lesser embraced truth, and with the balls to stand to the low neocon-ethcis he allied with during cold war, under the premisse to prevent anything even just named "socialism". Still neglecting the disporportionate and inhumane policies he bowed to and even the infamy he agreed into of saboting where possible, robbing populations chance to democracy / installing cruel military dictatures et al. Just as his preference - suspected by me - to not consider the US policies of not only taking over Third Reich rocket engineers. And much worse even, severally contradicting sincere policies like the intention "to set western Europe back on the course of liberal democracy" ( as the US common sense´s assertion he quoted it as) by sneaking the vast of leading department´s nazis back into their seats and together with the Vatican organizing the sneaking out of the thugs who weren´t deemed able to be covered-up. Ruphus In your summary, I find it difficult to distinguish my own viewpoint from what I described as prevailing American ones, which I may or may not share. During a long life my attitudes have altered significantly as I matured and as I acquired more information. Just yesterday I read a review of a book about life under Soviet domination in Eastern Europe. There was a passing assertion that Stalin in particular, and succeeding Soviet leadership in general, had no contingency plan for invading western Europe. Stalin, a thoroughgoing Marxist, was said to believe that war between the capitalist countries was inevitable, and that as a by-product the Soviet Union would be attacked. In addition to keeping Warsaw Pact populations in line, the Soviet military order of battle was said to be defensive. The Soviets had massive troop and tank concentrations in eastern Europe, giving them a significant advantage over western European and American ground forces. American and western European strategy and order of battle took this into account. I find it hard to believe that in the absence of countervailing force, the Soviet Union would not have attacked the west if a war had broken out, and the Soviet Union became involved in it. But I find this an interesting topic, and I mean to try to find out more about it. As to "setting Europe back on the path of liberal democracy" I was describing how the majority of Americans see themselves, not ascribing virtue to myself. However, when I first visited Europe in the late 1950s, and continuing at least into the 1970s, many people spontaneously expressed gratitude to America for its role in the defeat of the Nazis, and the economic effects of the Marshall Plan. More recently I have heard negative opinions of America's actions on the world stage. I share many of these opinions. The German rocket scientists are an interesting case. I knew one of the second tier, my brother knew von Braun. Von Braun and his team were involved in the development of intermediate range ballistic missiles for the military, but then were wholly diverted to work on the NASA moon landing project. Interestingly enough, both von Braun and the American Robert Goddard testify that von Braun's work in Germany was based on Goddard's pioneering efforts. Few doubt that von Braun was an enthusiastic German nationalist during the early stages of Hitler's regime. When he was arrested by the Gestapo and accused of communist sympathy, one suspects it may have cooled his ardor somewhat. By that time he was the leader of the German military rocket program. Hitler's personal intervention enabled him to return to that work, though von Braun was aware that he was under continual suspicion and surveillance for the rest of the time he was in Germany. After being brought to the USA with most of his team under "Operation Paperclip" all of them carefully steered completely clear of politics, as one might have expected. Their endorsement of any political position would have been pure poison. Von Braun's work had relatively small strategic effect. Knowledge of the crowded schedule, and the risks taken in the moon rocket project to meet that schedule, makes it clear to an experienced engineer like me that von Braun would have had no time to devote to military rocket development, which followed a totally different technical path. I will bore you with a personal account, but its purpose is to make a larger point. As a young man I participated in paramilitary operations in Central America, supported by the USA and said to be aimed at preventing the spread of Soviet influence among the Indians on the east coast. I was from a family with a long military tradition in America. Four of my ancestors served under General Washington. Two of my great-grandfathers fought for the Confederacy in the Civil War, the other two fought for the North. i am prouder of the service to the Union, but still, the other two were my ancestors, part of a family where loyalty to the group was highly valued. My father attained a high rank in the U.S. Air Force and served in World War II. So I thought going to Central America to fight communism was a good idea. Once I was in Central America and involved in combat, I concluded that the operation was actually a continuation of the 4 1/2-century war of the white elite against the Indians, while the Somozas and others blew smoke up Uncle Sam's ass. I made my views clear to my superiors and resigned in disgust. From that time forward I have not taken the American position totally at face value. During the cold war I viewed the Soviet regime as evil and corrupt. I still do. It gave socialist principles an undeserved bad name. But the Soviets gave a detailed lesson in how state ownership and central planning could be corrupted under a totalitarian regime. I was involved in the nuclear standoff. No one was injured by nuclear weapons during the cold war. At the time I saw this as being as much due to the caution and circumpection of the Soviet leadership as it was to actions by the West--except for Khruschev's miscalculation in placing missiles in Cuba. This was seen as risky enough behavior by the Soviet leadership itself, to get rid of Khruschev as primary leader. I strongly opposed the U.S. policy of installing or propping up right wing dictators. I spoke out about it openly, even to Richard Perle, the "Black Prince"--Undersecretary of Defense for Policy. But Perle apparently didn't see me as a threat. He could easily have removed me from critical projects I was involved in, but did not. I opposed the Vietnam War and participated in demonstrations against it. During my career in the military industrial complex I was under constant surveillance, as was everybody else with the same access to information. I was not suspected as a traitor by the security establishment. I bore you with this lengthy personal account to point out that people's attitudes and beliefs may change significantly from those they held at the beginning of adult life. My attitudes have changed even in the last few years on some issues. In fact, in my experience, very few if any people ever attain the lifelong moral purity claimed by some on this forum. With age and experience, many see there was a degree of error in their youthful ways. Could the German rocket scientists have regretted their support of the Nazi regime once they became fully aware of its actions? My experience with an employee owned company led me to believe that a just and equitable life can be led under a capitalist legal and economic system. I have no doubt that the same is true of a socialist one. I believe that the economic and political system in the USA inflicts severe inequities and injustices, and we need to do something about it. Nor am I opposed to implementation of socialism where people want to do it--though I don't think it's immune to corruption. RNJ
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