RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling)

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Full Version)

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cRobson12 -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 2:43:47)
Yes but they are still better sounding than the Alhambras , rodriguez etc. It's very diffuclt to find a luthier or a hand made student guitar around here [:D].

estebanana -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 2:51:06)
quote: And yes I see what you mean with the guitar "build" statement. But they are just words and I think that they get the point across. The only thing that separates artists from corporate schlubs that want to sell you stuff in an unethical manner is our language and our style. Language and the precise or imprecise way you use it means everything. Often it's ok to just get your point across, but if you put effort into articulating your point the meaning is clearer.

estebanana -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 2:53:46)
quote: What about.... assemble, cast, compile, compose, contrive, engineer, erect, evolve, fabricate, fashion, fit together, forge, form, frame, jerry-build, knock together, make, manufacture, model, prefabricate, produce, put together, put up, raise, rear, reconstruct? It's great you made a whole list of words to choose from, but to call it a "build" by comparison to all these great words and ways of expressing it sounds uneducated.

cRobson12 -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 2:58:39)
[:D]

Sean -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 4:06:30)
Arrogant is not a word I would choose for your insinuation that I'm retarded or lack an education. More descriptive words usually spring to mind whenever I come across someone who feels the need to insult and put others down just to make themselves feel ever so important. Next time you get up off your throne don't forget to flush, I'd rather not smell that kind of ****.

avimuno -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 6:37:29)
Damn... It's funny that 'Andalusian Guitars' and Ruben are still causes for such passion. I've met Ruben a couple of times and he seemed like an overly enthusiastic geek to me... Nothing wrong with that, we are all pretty much that when it comes to what we are passionate about. But the problem with Ruben is that he seems to couple that trait with a very advanced state of megalomania - it's quite simply a wrong combination. But I'm in no position to judge, and apologize if I've seemed harsh... it's his life and his opinions. We live in a world that values individualism and freedom of speech, and as Voltaire would have said it: "Sir, I despise you and your ideas, but I would give my life so that you have the right to express them"... Summarizes my feelings entirely. What does however constitute a point where I would voice my humble opinion strongly is what lawyers call 'misrepresentation'... and it's exactly what Ruben does with 'Andalusian Guitars'. It's too easy to claim to sell an Aston Martin when you're selling a Renault. But then again, most people playing Andalusian guitars are beginners who have not yet learned what a good flamenco guitar should be like, so it does not really harm the honest luthier who works hard at delivering the best possible instrument at a fair price.

rogeliocan -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 10:45:51)
quote: I've met Ruben a couple of times and he seemed like an overly enthusiastic geek to me... Nothing wrong with that, we are all pretty much that when it comes to what we are passionate about. But the problem with Ruben is that he seems to couple that trait with a very advanced state of megalomania - it's quite simply a wrong combination. Well said, I also met him, at the 12th fret in Toronto and he was pushy. If you want to kill time, visit other guitar forums and see what you find on Ruben. Only one forum did not end up kicking him out, one from France, only because he could not speak French. Read the developments in the threads, it's amusing. quote: is what lawyers call 'misrepresentation'... Right on too.

Pimientito -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 11:35:06)
quote: I absolutely hate it when people call making a guitar a "build". It's incorrect English. What part of England are you from? Maybe "construct" is a better word but to "build a guitar" is colloquial and correct. I dont think a build requires a pre set builders plan. For example a beaver builds a dam...thats perfectly correct. I can understand your point of frustration with exact terminology but please dont state that its not English. England has many guitar builders!

Escribano -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 11:54:56)
I tend to say "guitarmaker" and that "he makes guitars".

Pimientito -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 13:50:48)
http://www.guitarbuilder.org/ "Before mid 2000 Andrew Guyton was almost unknown in the field of guitar building. Since that time he has established himself as one of the premiere guitar builders in the UK.The Guyton Guitar Company specializes in building high quality instruments..." http://www.guytonguitars.com/ "Brian is one of the UK's top guitar builders and repairers.." http://www.brianeastwoodguitars.co.uk/ I'm just saying that the term "building a guitar" is acceptable and common English...certainly in England. I wouldn't even go to the bother to make this point but I took exception to the statement that " It's retarded language and retarded thinking." Are we still talking about English language or people here?

GuitarVlog -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 14:17:59)
quote: ORIGINAL: avimuno But then again, most people playing Andalusian guitars are beginners who have not yet learned what a good flamenco guitar should be like, so it does not really harm the honest luthier who works hard at delivering the best possible instrument at a fair price. But doesn't it harm the beginner who may have overpaid for his/her instrument owing to their lack of experience and knowledge?

BarkellWH -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 14:28:38)
quote: First of all, never, ever use the term "build" in front of me. Besides being an assault on the English language, it makes me crazy raving mad enough to cut someone with a prison shiv. Please don't in my company refer to your guitar making project as a "build". Thanks. Build, used as a verb, is a perfectly legitimate use of the English language when referring to "building a guitar." It is a synonym for "construct" and any number of other verbs referring to assembling or making something according to a plan. It certainly is not "an assault on the English language," except, perhaps, to someone for whom the English language is an extremely limited tool for expression. Cheers, Bill

Pawo -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 15:03:37)
quote: Build, used as a verb, is a perfectly legitimate use of the English language Just my two cents worth but I think the person didn't like the use of the word 'build' when used as a noun...when one talks about 'my build' etc.... Cheers Dave

Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 24 2011 15:23:30)
[Deleted by Admins]

XXX -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 15:31:17)
POPCORN TIME!!!

Escribano -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 15:40:12)
quote: FACT: the first few pages of this thread were from SATISFIED OWNERS of his guitars and then the trolls came on board and reduced this thread to another pissing contest. FACT: The people posting sh!t about Andalusian guitars have never even laid hands on one of them or tested them out and are slagging his stuff because he p1ssed them off when he joined this foro. FACT: As for a producer "misrepresenting" his goods, if anyone posting on this thread actually made it to law school (highly doubt it) they'd realise there is a very fine distinction between "misrepresentation" and "marketing" (selling a banjo and calling it a guitar is misrepresentation, selling an ordinary guitar and calling it the best ever made is marketing ... thats capitalism at its best, deal with it.) FACT: Using concepts you know nothing off to try and bolster your argument usually ends up having the opposite effect ... its called PARADOX. It seems you are the one speaking of things you know nothing of or you have a very short memory. The back story is complex, nasty and did indeed involve real lawyers - one of them was ours, the other a fake one "from Madrid" (with childish mistakes someone raised in Mexico might make with their legal terms and spelling) starting a legal action against me. That might be considered a felony in the countries of North America, I would imagine. The product is questionably represented by European standards of "country of origin" (if it still says "Spain" on the label and is called "Andalusian"), the PdL endorsement is far from solid and the multiple false identities posting here in order to continue this 'marketing' ploy were the last straw. So who are the trolls in that scenario? Us? Gimme a break.

CuerdasDulces -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 15:41:07)
Hey Cory, I tried to warn you. [:D]

GuitarVlog -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 15:45:42)
quote: ORIGINAL: nealf ... selling an ordinary guitar and calling it the best ever made is marketing ... Anyone remember that Dilbert cartoon quote? "I know what we do seems like criminal fraud, but it's not - it's marketing." [:D]

Sean -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 17:45:51)
I built this guitar 2 years ago and on that particular build I did not follow any plans. The guitar was inspired by Torres but with a slightly larger plantilla drawn by me and altered strut angles to match. I know all this because I was there at the time.

cRobson12 -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 18:02:27)
quote: Hey Cory, I tried to warn you. I should have listened [:D]

Ron.M -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 18:34:17)
I've never tried one of those guitars, but reckon from the appearance they'd be OK guitars as guitars go. Maybe not at the price. But can anyone tell me why ANY major artist or celebrity would publicly endorse a commercial product (in writing) and allow it to be used in advertising "ad infinitum", for ALL guitars coming from that house completely free of contract or charge? Doesn't make sense to me. Especially if that artist or celebrity has their own (signed) and business contract covered product on the market at the same time? What sensible artist's business manager would even dream of that? (Let alone that apparently Paco's business manager even denies this claim and is threatening legal action.) That FACT alone, and the whole **** marketing campaign has frankly just put me off the brand, regardless of how good they are. I'd rather get a signed guitar from a good and established Luthier myself, who is not ashamed of putting his signature on his work or disclosing where his workshop is located. (By the way, I have a few "Paco de Lucia" cejillas for sale if anybody is interested, only $150 a time...total bargain IMO.) (Paco tells me personally that they are the best cejillas he's ever used and contributes a lot to his sound.. [;)]) cheers, Ron

Harry -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 19:02:08)
quote: I'd rather get a signed make from a good and established Luthier myself, who is not ashamed of putting his signature on his work or disclosing where his workshp is located. After having done a little research on this forum and elsewhere, and after thinking about it at length, I think that this is the only way to go. So much so that I am starting to get turned off of Condes, thanks again to some members who have raised some questions about these enigmatic guitars and their astronomical price tags. Certainly as one forum member alluded to, when you buy a Mercedes you know you are getting incredible quality, so does it matter who built it and where? Well, a guitar is not the same as a car to me, and I want to know that one man spent a lot of time and energy and effort constructing a guitar and can put his name on it with pride, and I also want to be able to support men who make a living building guitars in their workshops like Anders and so many others. At least until they get so big that they must have other men build guitars under their supervision![:D]

bursche -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 19:10:03)
quote: want to know that one man spent a lot of time and energy and effort constructing a guitar and can put his name on it with pride. Sounds rather romantic, but if this is the story behind a good guitar then it is the best choice. In that case: "regardless of its maker".

Harry -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 19:11:53)
Bursche, I love your new signature! Excellent!

estebanana -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 20:36:12)
quote: Arrogant is not a word I would choose for your insinuation that I'm retarded or lack an education. More descriptive words usually spring to mind whenever I come across someone who feels the need to insult and put others down just to make themselves feel ever so important. Next time you get up off your throne don't forget to flush, I'd rather not smell that kind of ****. I was not meaning to insult you. Take it as comedic riffing not insult. Which BTW my throne is inlayed with mother of pearl dragons and I have my ass-istant flush it for me. Royalty should never have to touch a common toilet handle.

estebanana -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 20:45:44)
quote: Build, used as a verb, is a perfectly legitimate use of the English language when referring to "building a guitar." It is a synonym for "construct" and any number of other verbs referring to assembling or making something according to a plan. I don't object to build being used as a verb as it is a verb. What grates on my ear for English is when it is used to say something like: Hey, how's your build going? - English has lots of nuance and people who use language can use it any way they like, but it does not mean it sounds good. How is your build going sounds bad to my ear, and it sounds uneducated to my ear. So does the oft heard construction: Where you at? Everyone has language bugaboos and pet peeves. How is your build - and - Where you at- are two things that sound horrible to me.

Ron.M -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 21:16:13)
quote: Everyone has language bugaboos and pet peeves. How is your build - and - Where you at- are two things that sound horrible to me. I hate when folk in the UK say "step up to the plate". There is no fuccking plate in the UK except for a dinner plate. I wrote into the Today Programme about a year ago saying that John Humphries and others got on my tits about using that expression and also the one... "between a rock and a hard place", nearly every day. It's not funny... it's not smart...it's just fk'all crap American koolspeak... Amazingly... he hasn't used these expressions since![:-] cheers, Ron

Escribano -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 22:04:39)
You should hear my colleages at Microsoft: "Playbook" - how to do something "Go to" as a noun i.e. where to go for help "Ask" - as a noun i.e. this is our ask "Battlecard" - competive information "Call to action" - go do something "Reach out" - ask for help "Ecosystem" - people selling stuff yadda yadda.... Get's my goat, it does

BarkellWH -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 22:11:16)
quote: How is your build going sounds bad to my ear, and it sounds uneducated to my ear. So does the oft heard construction: Where you at? I totally agree with you. Sorry, I misunderstood your original complaint about the use of "build." My pet peeve is the constant use in the U.S. of the phrase, "coming from," as in "I know where he's coming from," meaning one knows what lies behind his thinking or actions. More coolspeak. And it is downright ludicrous the number of articles by reputable journalists who use the term "penultimate" to mean the final, the ultimate of whatever they are writing about. It means second from last, and it confirms once again my opinion that aspiring journalists should obtain a degree in history, political science, or English; anything but a degree in journalism! Cheers, Bill

estebanana -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 24 2011 23:02:00)
quote: You should hear my colleages at Microsoft: "Playbook" - how to do something "Go to" as a noun i.e. where to go for help "Ask" - as a noun i.e. this is our ask "Battlecard" - competive information "Call to action" - go do something "Reach out" - ask for help "Ecosystem" - people selling stuff yadda yadda.... Get's my goat, it does I hate when Yuppie art directors say impactful. Is it impactful? Why can't they just say: Does it have impact?

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