RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Full Version)

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Message

Yojimbo -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 21 2011 17:55:24)

quote:

Wow, are you considering replacing your conde with Andalusian?


No I'm not.

Do you know what a beater bicycle is? It's something you ride around town doing errands and stuff so if it gets stolen you don't care because your $5000 carbon fibre bike is still locked up at home.

It's like that - only different.



XXX -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 21 2011 18:04:33)

anyway just forget what i wrote... was just some stupid joke.
But please, get that Conde to a luthier ASAP. Firstly have to have it checked (neck, cracks) secondly to have security as a seller (if your going to sell) about its authenticity.



vuduchyld -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 21 2011 18:59:00)

I'd love to buy the best guitar I can personally try, but unfortunately, that would be a Cordoba 30F for $329.99 at the Guitar Center 45 minutes away. Eff dat.

I will probably have to buy something online to replace my crappy Eterna (off-brand Yamaha) classical.



bursche -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 21 2011 20:16:21)

And if you get the opportunity: buy a used guitar so you don't lose all your money on the obligatory depreciation.



Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 22 2011 2:29:52)

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Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 22 2011 2:33:40)

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Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 22 2011 2:37:29)

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Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 22 2011 2:41:48)

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Andy Culpepper -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 22 2011 2:42:13)

they're butt ugly but maybe they sound OK in person...



Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 22 2011 2:43:59)

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Sean -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 22 2011 4:20:44)

It looks cleanly put together, certainly not what I expected to see given the horror stories.
I think their marketing department could use a giant enema and perhaps they should add a more traditional looking model to their lineup but other then that they seem like a good deal.



HolyEvil -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 22 2011 6:39:03)

didn't the luthiers here said lattice brace don't really work for flamenco guitars?



Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 22 2011 12:50:13)

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Andy Culpepper -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 22 2011 12:55:33)

eek.. probably not the best demonstration of the sound qualities of either guitar.
But as compared in the video I easily prefer the Yamaha, though neither one sounded great.
They both had thin trebles but the Andalusian were thinner and more "plasticky" IMO.
The Yamaha had more percussive, flamenco sounding basses.

Again it's hard to compare of course.



Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 22 2011 13:02:45)

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Harry -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 22 2011 13:19:45)

I am not so sure those on the forum who are utterly turned off by Andalusian guitars will ever come around. But, if people who own them get enjoyment out of them than that is what counts no?

If everyone was into the same type of guitar after all, it would really, really drive up the price (Conde anyone).



Sean -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 22 2011 14:15:17)

It did seem pretty apparent you were working much harder on the Yamaha, when you first switched there was a definite volume change before you compensated and played with less effort. If one could be had for a $1000- $1200 it would be good, when you get a little higher in budget a second hand less known luthier guitar could be a better deal and then a new one in the $2500-$3000 from a North American luthier or Paracho builder like Salvador Castillo. The worst factory junk can be had for $3000 from Spain if your heart desires a new name brand guitar from there but I honestly don't see the point in that.



ralexander -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 22 2011 14:46:57)

My teacher has one - I'm not overly impressed by the tone but as a good player he can coax some nice sounds out of it. I haven't had the chance to play it myself, so I can't comment on playability or anything else.



Morante -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 22 2011 15:32:23)

Cuando un professional busca una guitarra, le interese la comodidad para la mano izquierda, la mano derecha, la distancia entre cuerdas y trastes, la distancia entre cuerdas y tapa armonica, el ángulo en el puente etc. Despues, el sonido.

He tocado solamento una guitarra "Andalusian". Fallaba en todas estas medidas y sonaba regular.

En este video, la diferencia en sonido entre la Yamaha y la "Andalucian" me parece poco.

Una pregunta: has tocado alguna vez una guitarra realmente buena?

Cuando hay una falta de conocimiento, debería de reconocerlo y invitar a un amigo que sabe, cuando quiere eligir una guitarra.



XXX -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 22 2011 16:38:56)

the video shows that the Andalusian has better string separation than the Yamaha. The actual sound is hard to comment on because of the recording quality, but string separation is pretty obvious. But anyway, Yamaha is probably not the best opponent to choose. Better Sanchis or other "real" flamenco guitars.



Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 22 2011 16:48:47)

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estebanana -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 22 2011 16:50:49)

quote:

I would personally recommend a Bernal over the ugly Ruben variety, if one can find them in the US for that money.


Where is the Facebook Like this comment button for this post?

LIKE!

The Andelusionals are not even based on a Spanish guitar, the head stock is a copy of Panormo who was an Italian luthier who lived in London in the 1830's before Torres. They were false advertised as being promoted by Paco de Lucia himself and the origin of the guitar was falsified. On top of all that they were being sold for exorbitant amounts of money to people who did not know the truth.

What's to like about that?

Personally I would not give you a pinch of dog feces for one of these things as they are a kick in the teeth to any real luthier. At least a Bernal looks like a guitar and you can trade it away when you are ready to trade up into real guitar.

What people need to finally learn is that comparing student grade guitars teaches you nothing. You need to sit a cheap guitar next to a really fine vetted flamenco guitar by any maker and learn how it feels to play the better guitar. You won't cultivate your ear or sense of what makes a great guitar unless you actually seek out great guitars to try. You have to gain the trust of friends and acquaintances that have exceptional guitars and get a little time playing them to understand.

Discussion about which student guitar is better is not germane to learning about good guitars. It's like trying to develop a taste for fine wine while pouring glasses of Thunderbird or whatever vinegary crap table wine you have heating up on a window sill.


( feels damn good to know I can still get a rant going)



cRobson12 -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 22 2011 16:58:57)

No trolling Estebanana



Harry -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 22 2011 17:11:38)

Indeed since there is the no trolling warning, people who dislike Andalusian guitars should avoid this thread.

I think that is what was happening up to this point. For myself, I have no opinion having never played one, but if I had the choice, I would go for a guitar made by a builder who has his name on the label each time.



Morante -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 22 2011 17:15:55)

quote:

Pregunta ?vives en Espana?


Sí. Conozco muchas guitarras: de Moraíto (Conde), Paco Cepero (Conde), Raimundo Amador (Gerundino), Antonio Carríon (Reyes Padre), Román Vicente (Carrillo), Raúl Vicente (José Romero), Diego Amaya (Ramirez), Niño de la Leo (Barba) etc.

Tambien he trabajado varios años en un taller de guitarras, haciendos arreglos y restauraciones.

Por eso, y porque sé que muchos guitarristas no entienen su instrumente, siempre les aconsejo que buscan ayuda en el momento de comprar.



estebanana -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 22 2011 19:13:14)

Since when is telling the truth trolling?

You're making an infomercial for Prof. Diaz so I told my end of the story. Tell Ruben to never again spam my website or leave nasty comments on my videos. That is trolling.

Actually now that I think of it........you've pissed me off really good.



Doitsujin -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 22 2011 19:43:11)

Admins close the tread. It is talked about a banned issue. [8D]



cRobson12 -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 22 2011 20:02:08)

Estebanana, my comment was posted before you added those paragraphs stating why you didn't like the guitars. Before you posted "Where is the Facebook Like this comment button for this post?

LIKE!"

That is trolling.
We all know the implications of how the guitars are advertised, the point of the thread was to inform people interested in buying a Flamenco guitar in Toronto about options. Most people here would go buy an Alhambra, or a rodriguez, when the Andalusian is a better choice for the same price.

Comments like yours is why this thread is going to be closed, this thread was simply made to inform people that these guitars are not as bad as they are put out to be, and I find it with no doubt that the forum members here that do OWN one of these guitars don't say anything for fear that they would get slandered because of it.

You make me out the be some sort of "Follower" or Ruben, all I am doing is trying out my options before a purchase a real flamenco guitar. Me trying a Andalusian and saying they are good is not parading these guitars out like an infomercial. It's like me trying a Navarro and saying "Hey these are good!"

But why argue with someone who has one mind set and is clearly not opened to new ideas.

I hope your happy, because you have ruined this thread.

Admins close the thread before another **** storm happens.



Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 22 2011 20:20:06)

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Sean -> RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling) (Feb. 22 2011 20:22:18)

I think someone missed the point, this was not about fine luthier built flamenco guitars but about someone buying their first student guitar for a $1000CDN or $740Euro. If you want to start a thread on poor business practices I'm all for that and maybe we should start with Spain. I find it pretty shady selling a Gerundino for $8000 one that was built many years after he stopped building, or Conde, they would have a guitar built by a spanish cab driver and still not sell it any cheaper. You can name off all the pro players and what they play all damn day long but since they never bought off the rack in some music store it's a moot point. Dealing directly with a luthier is by far the best way to go if its in your budget it's far more honest.
I found a loophole to avoid bad business practices and ripoffs, I make my own.



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