Ron.M -> RE: 2s in bulerias examples (Jul. 4 2004 21:42:26)
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quote:
I think the only way to see the inner structure is to listen to many recorded bulerías beating twos straight through, never lapsing into 3s, 6s, or 12s. It's very exciting when you see the elegant simplicity of it all. Estela 'Zata' If I can chime in here. I've "learned" Bulerias over the years by the usual 12's principle. I'm still not good at it, even trying to keep compás with unfamiliar records. Now,I know this has nothing to do with music, but as an Engineer, sometimes you can look at something and tell that it's wrong. Something "not quite right". It might be the shape, or the way it appears to work, or as in the case of Research Scientists, when the same experiment leads to 20 different results, you've got to start asking questions about the whole premise of the experiment in the first place. I've struggled with Bulerias for ages and once I grasped the 3, 6, 8, 10 12 cycle I thought I'd got it. But alas no. In fact very far from it. There seemed to be zillions of different Bulerias rhythm permutations and I couldn't believe that say, a 10 year old dancer in Spain had learned them all. The idea seems "ugly", and just didn't fit. After all, as I said before...this is "real" music to the Flamencos. Something they do when they're even drunk and having a good time. It was only after Zata's initial post some months ago that Ondajerez started streaming some programmes from the peñas of Jerez. The stuff these guys were playing was different to anything I'd heard on records or CD's. A very much more relaxed style and something that didn't conform to the 3,6,8,10,12 analysis. The stuff was so "loose", very relaxed and rhythmic, and took a lot of analysis from my own "12 count" perspective to make any sense of. The only thing that seemed to be obvious was this strong 2,4,6,8,10,12 count. I don't know if Zata's right or wrong, for as everybody knows, it's hard to get any solid information on Flamenco, only opinions. But when I saw one of my favourite Bulerias accompanists tap his foot 2,4,6,8,10,12 regardless of where the compás was going, or if he was spanning his falsetas over 2 lots of eighteen beats, I had to agree that the "12's" structure I had learned was only an illusion of what is actually going on. It has to be able to be rationalised more than that.... I am (despite what Jim says LOL!) absolutely rotten at Bulerias. Sure, I can make an "Elvis impersonation" of something I've heard, provided it fits into my preconceptions of what Buleria is. But I still understand nothing of what I'm doing, except for that particular piece. Show me any foreign Flamenco player who posts stuff on the various Forums who is completely at home with Flamenco music apart from the pieces he has practiced and learned? ....including Todd! In reality, even a competent Jazz guitarist with little knowledge of Flamenco could put something credible together once he was aware of the 3, 6, 8, 10, 12 or 3, 7,8 10, 12 structure and was told to start on 12 and end on 6 or 10. I think they call it a rhythmic motif (?) But is this Flamenco? So it boiled down to those yellow and black books you used to get in the '60's called "Teach Yourself....Accountancy....Atomic Physics....Classical Music....Art"..........Bulerias LOL! (There used to be books with a similar content, but much shorter, called "How to Bluff Your Way Through....Shakespeare...Renaissance Art....Chinese Philosophy"...etc etc LOL!) So that's exactly how I feel about Flamenco. Especially Bulerias. I am in the process now of trying to unlearn what I have picked up over the years, and trying to develop a more simplistic approach. It's very hard to keep time, in comparison to my "old" way of thinking, which I think in the long run is "limiting" and makes you no more of a Flamenco player than a parrot can imitate sounds. But I think it's worth persevering with despite the difficulties in the "short" term. I have a sneakin' suspicion that Estela's got it right. I feel I've just got to try to unravel all the wrong thinking I've been doing for years. It would be easier continuing with the illusion, as I can sound better, like I know what I'm doing, to another guitarist. But I'm not really into that... Life's too short. I'd rather spend my time trying to get to the heart of the matter if possible. And I don't think the answer is the way I've learned. At the moment, I think it lies in the 2's. Really! My observations only! Ron
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