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RE: How shall we hold it?   You are logged in as Guest
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gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
Thank you for the pics, Anders, they are really helpful. I agree that it would be difficult to to hold one's guitar at that degree without some anti-slip&slide. This is totally my next project.

By the way, lovely guitar. I take it is one of your own, isn't it? I saw you playing it on youtube. It does help that a luthier can in fact play as well as you do.

Also, cute dog. I have a KC Cavalier, Maria, she sits with me for hours when i play. She seems to know my falsetas so well that she looks at me snobbishly or raises her head with obvious disappointment whenever i lose tempo ot make any other mistake. I used to dislike dogs... she's changed my heart completely.

Taranto... thank you for keeping the joke alive, it is inescapably funny. 'nothing to report really, however, my most immediate need to shift intto the traditional position is compelled by Left hand stiffness deriving as it seems by playing PDL's position.

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gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2008 7:01:36
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to gj Michelob)1 votes
The guitar is not the same as the one you´ve seen on youtube. Thats Simons guitar.
This I just finished.

I uploaded a video because sitting position is something dynamic and for that use a video is better:
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=96437&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2008 10:04:48
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
God Bless you Anders Eliasson, I found some old "Rug Pad" and sliced a narrow strip slightly wider than the guitar’s side, and long enough to roll around my thigh just at the edge of my hip. I completed it by adding a lace to tie the two ends of the pad –however unnecessary-.

It works wonderfully well….OMG… it now seems such obvious solution, but I am so excited about it. This must be what a footstool is to classical guitarists, an essential accessory. One can bend the instrument at any angle and even nearly parallel to the floor and it stays neatly and effortlessly in place.

Maybe in time this could be replaced by a distressed leather piece embellished with turquoise and laces adding that Tex-Mex cowboy flair and become the next cool thing in flamenco-accessories, at LaFlaseta???l!!!

Bravo Anders, thank you for going out of your way this morning and showing this little magic.

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gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2008 15:47:43
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to gj Michelob) 
I´m glad it works for you. I agree. Its so simple and so efficient.

The biggest advantage is that you can move your body and also the guitar without the fear of slipping.
The only backdraw is that of the trad position. You have to put weight on your right arm. This means that picado on the bass strings is a little bit more complicated, but in general I relax a lot more with the rubber rag and since long picado runs are not really my 1st ambition, I can live with that.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 29 2008 0:29:41
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
After a month-long break due to my injury, i resumed playing.

This "rug-pad" Anders suggested works like a charm. A new level of enjoying playing guitar, relaxed posture, easy on the hands, increased tone of the instrument. Wonderful....

Thank you again, Anders. Your advice made a remarkable difference.

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gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 25 2009 9:19:31
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to gj Michelob) 
quote:

You have to put weight on your right arm. This means that picado on the bass strings is a little bit more complicated


i find that using a small piece on the top under where the arm rests stabilizes it further more and helps with the picado/arm weight issue. you can basically take almost all the weight off and as long as there's contact, it stays fairly still.

quote:


After a month-long break due to my injury, i resumed playing.

that's great! must have been a tough month!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 25 2009 17:08:53
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to gj Michelob) 
Hi GJ

I´m glad to be of some kind of help. I can play cross leg and did so for some years, but I always get a desperate look in my eyes when I cant find my rubber cloth.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 26 2009 0:46:09
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to at_leo_87) 
Very tough month, at_leo_87, I typically wake up really early to enjoy at least one hour of practice, and this habit has become as addictive as drinking coffee (or regrettably as smoking a stogie with it). Every morning, I would instinctively head for my guitar only to quickly realize my finger wouldn’t have it. It is exactly like going on a diet, when you finally resume eating what you had renounced for a period of time, you rediscover how fragrant the flavors you had taken for granted…. and each note is worth dwelling on, each falseta a God given gift.

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gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 26 2009 5:03:28
 
asisetoca

 

Posts: 35
Joined: Nov. 16 2008
From: Kemble, England

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to gj Michelob) 
Hi I'm afraid I have to stick with the PDL position whenever im playing but that's only when im really paying attention(in a concert, or playing properly) to try and stregthen my let hand with the extra strain it puts on it! Also it does unfortunately have the coolness factor as it was used by PDL!! But if im not really bothered about looking cool or playing attention to position at all then anything will do traditional, 2 feet on the floor, anything! It's all about the balance between coolness and utility and for me the PDL one wins 90% o the time.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 26 2009 5:14:20
 
michel

 

Posts: 315
Joined: Apr. 14 2008
 

[Deleted] 
Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 26 2009 22:19:12
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 26 2009 5:34:39
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to gj Michelob) 
Gerardo is more traditional than me.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 26 2009 18:23:30
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to Ricardo) 
great picture. really captures the "essence."
what were you guys playing? was this in spain?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 26 2009 18:37:03
 
Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to gj Michelob) 
Yea, great picture. Looks like Gerardo's course. Good times. Certainly no shortage of palmeros. No?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 26 2009 18:39:51
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to at_leo_87) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: at_leo_87

great picture. really captures the "essence."
what were you guys playing? was this in spain?


down there they called that music "flamingo" or something.

Bulerias of course!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 26 2009 18:44:09
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to Ricardo) 
wow, i didn't know you played flamingo as well. i love that stuff!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 26 2009 18:48:06
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to Ricardo) 
wow playing with Ricardo... how can anyone sustain that kind of tension !!!
Gerardo is visibly intimidated, stiffly a shy gaze betrays his preoccupied expression. I would feel excatly the same way...


quote:

Gerardo is more traditional than me.



Attachment (1)


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gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 27 2009 5:30:19
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to gj Michelob) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: gj Michelob

wow playing with Ricardo... how can anyone sustain that kind of tension !!!
Gerardo is visibly intimidated, stiffly a shy gaze betrays his preoccupied expression. I would feel excatly the same way...


quote:

Gerardo is more traditional than me.



Attachment (1)



I think it was my ultra modern sitting position that scared him...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 27 2009 5:52:22
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to gj Michelob)1 votes
or maybe the smell from your guiry" sandals.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 27 2009 7:30:45
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to gj Michelob) 
This picture is seriously misinterpreted!

Ricardo, as a long-term student has just received the Gerardo " Fraternity Skull-Ring" in a private ceremony beforehand.
This ring allows safe passage in even the very worst Gitano barrios in Spain, lest those who might hinder or molest the wearer, suffer the "Wrath of Nuñez." (which has been described in various posts before).

It is nicknamed "Flash and Pass" (Flachar y Pasar) for those in the know and is very highly held in esteem and awe in Andalucia.

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 27 2009 10:43:01
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to Ron.M) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

This picture is seriously misinterpreted!

Ricardo, as a long-term student has just received the Gerardo " Fraternity Skull-Ring" in a private ceremony beforehand.
This ring allows safe passage in even the very worst Gitano barrios in Spain, lest those who might hinder or molest the wearer, suffer the "Wrath of Nuñez." (which has been described in various posts before).

It is nicknamed "Flash and Pass" (Flachar y Pasar) for those in the know and is very highly held in esteem and awe in Andalucia.

cheers,

Ron

\
no anders was right. it was my feet....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 27 2009 11:53:44
 
Matic

 

Posts: 603
Joined: Jul. 3 2006
 

[Deleted] 
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 27 2009 12:17:05
 
MarcChrys

 

Posts: 121
Joined: Jan. 11 2009
From: England (West Yorkshire/Lancashire)

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to gj Michelob) 
Crossed legs increases risk of varicose veins, clots and hip replacements popping out! :)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 29 2009 7:36:43
 
MarcChrys

 

Posts: 121
Joined: Jan. 11 2009
From: England (West Yorkshire/Lancashire)

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to gj Michelob) 
This thread has actually got me thinking about how I PREFER to hold my guitar - I'd never really thought about it that much, and tend to use a range of positions - including totally non-flamenco postures such as lying down on the sofa with the guitar body tilted towards me! After trying 3 positions: the classic Paco Pena position (guitar between legs resting on left knee), PdL position (right leg crossed over left thigh) and the Ladypleaser (!) (legs apart sitting normally, guitar on right thigh), I have concluded the 3rd position is by far the most comfortable/natural (and the PdL position is very uncomfortable and inhibitory - no wonder Paco pulls those faces when he's doing falsetas! ;-) )
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 29 2009 8:05:28
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to MarcChrys) 
quote:

This thread has actually got me thinking about how I PREFER to hold my guitar - I'd never really thought about it that much, and tend to use a range of positions - including totally non-flamenco postures such as lying down on the sofa with the guitar body tilted towards me! After trying 3 positions: the classic Paco Pena position (guitar between legs resting on left knee), PdL position (right leg crossed over left thigh) and the Ladypleaser (!) (legs apart sitting normally, guitar on right thigh), I have concluded the 3rd position is by far the most comfortable/natural (and the PdL position is very uncomfortable and inhibitory - no wonder Paco pulls those faces when he's doing falsetas! ;-) )


You broke it down quite well. I wouldn't have agreed with your views when I started this thread, but Anders' wise advice has chnaged my "position" on the subject. The pad works handsomely, and the last position you describe is both comfortable and pleasent.... maybe even cool.

I did experience some circulation and numbness issues when playing PDL-like.

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gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 29 2009 9:22:37
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to MarcChrys) 
I find the "Paco" position most uncomfortable, probably due to right hip damage when I was a kid.
I enjoy playing best on a sofa or a stool which are normally about 15-16 inches high, with the guitar on my right knee.
A chair, however is normally around 18 inches, which is just that bit too much and makes me lean over and put strain on my back.
The "Spanish" chair has a stretcher bar about 3 inches above the ground which you can wedge your heel into, but other models are much higher and are no good for guitar playing IMO.

Since you don't normally get 15 inch chairs I think my accessory if I were ever to become a pro would be a Junior Hacksaw!
(Unless I was famous enough to get them to fly my own personal sofa around the World! )

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 29 2009 11:29:16
 
srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to Ron.M) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M
Unless I was famous enough to get them to fly my own personal sofa around the World!


Why not? Glenn Gould toted his own "special" chair around everywhere, and, as I've just discovered, that chair now has its own deeply unnecessary and outrageously extravagant website. In four languages. With a downloadable pdf of the technical specs. And lovingly rendered, vasaline-lensed photos. And thousand-euro replicas available for purchase.

Good lord......

http://www.glenngould-chair.com/lingue/english/home/home.html
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 29 2009 12:14:31
 
srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to gj Michelob) 
Oh, and to the topic: I've recently started reading a book about back-pain elimination via postural adjustment, so I'm actively engaged in finding a new, and ideal sitting position that's in harmony with the principles espoused in the book.

So right now, nothing feels right, and I'm constantly adjusting.....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 29 2009 12:18:07
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to srshea) 
what the heck is so special about that chair? what's with the seat? what's its purpose? by keeping you alert by placing unnecessary pain to your groinal region?

http://www.4-men.org/erectile-dysfunction/bicycle-seats.html
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 29 2009 12:26:03
 
srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to at_leo_87) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: at_leo_87

what the heck is so special about that chair? what's with the seat? what's its purpose? by keeping you alert by placing unnecessary pain to your groinal region?

http://www.4-men.org/erectile-dysfunction/bicycle-seats.html



Well, given that Gould was pretty much nuts, I think the chair was "special" in that it satisfied his irrational and pathological need to carry around a weird little chair.

Why others would want to spend a grand to replicate that experience is anybody's guess....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 29 2009 12:51:31
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: How shall we hold it? (in reply to srshea) 
quote:

Why others would want to spend a grand to replicate that experience is anybody's guess....


just plain ol' hero worship. seriously, what's wrong with a normal adjustable piano bench. some people have too much money....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 29 2009 17:10:53
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