RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS

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Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to Ailsa)

quote:

This is all your idea, so we don't want to exclude you anyway!

thank you.. il take care of your score

jk.!!

it wasent my idea, it was someone elses great idea...but i fully embrace it...at first i saw an oportunity for myself..its great motivation to learn new stuff..lets face it sometimes without a goal its eazy to lose motivation to develop harder ( I am always so much more productive when its something specific i am preparing for with a deadline)....but i thought the guajira and cantinas worshop was further away..

for me .. i should remain focused on the Guajiras and Cantinas until this workshop is over...so now i am just happy to help organise it and spectate it...but still just as excited...i wish i was in it...that buleriando intro is excellent....looks like great fun..eazy enough for many to take part but hard enough to make you pay very very close attention to the aire....and the beginner challenge it really is the base of a great bulerias imo... everything u need to get started on it proprely is right there

if this works i am in the next one for sure

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 5:28:28

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to Florian)

definitely. florian has done an excellent job getting this all together. you should definitely be a judge. i think we can rely on ron, flo, ricardo, and anders since they're here often. i'd be happy with just that. but of course, we should try to get more.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 5:29:47

val

Posts: 800
Joined: Apr. 4 2007
From: London

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS Beginer (in reply to Florian)

quote:

this is a possible Beginner Challenge..its stil buleria but the focus is on basic compas and rasqueado...i need some members that consider themselfs beginners too help me out here...is this too hard ? too eazy ?

For me, probably a bit hard. I've played around superficially with various stuff but have always avoided bulerias. My compas is OK in my head, in my hands and in my feet, but am I ready for this? I don't know. I'd like to think I'll give it a try, but am not sure I'll ever get to the point of uploading.

Ailsa - IMO, You are NO LONGER A BEGINNER!
How about an "Improvers" section?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 6:29:25

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS Beginer (in reply to val)

quote:

Ailsa - IMO, You are NO LONGER A BEGINNER!

Well I still think I am. I know I've been playing for 18 months, but at my age the old brain cells are running slower and my fingers definitely are!

And I definitely am a beginner for bulerias. Although I've done a few little performances in public I've never dared try bulerias - it's so easy to play badly, so difficult to get it to sound 'right'! I thought the sample Flo uploaded sounded about right for me. Some bits are familiar but some not, and I'd have to work at it to get it the groove.

Whereas the Moraito for intermediate - para nada!! Moraito is my hero, no way I'd attempt any of his music.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 6:39:32

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS Beginer (in reply to val)

quote:

I've played around superficially with various stuff but have always avoided bulerias. My compas is OK in my head, in my hands and in my feet, but am I ready for this?

You are the perfect candidate for this...Yes i think you are ...i think you can do it ..remember its a challenge..its meant to push your limitations a litlle..

even if you get half way you would have gained something...theres no doubt in my mind that if you comit to it you will put in a wordy attempt...this will force you up a step..who knows..you might end up beeing the dark horse

dont count yourself out before you even tried it lol

the only limitations that exist are those you place on yourself...its amazing how capable we are to adapting..

be practical and methodical when you work on it...start with a litlle at the time..very slow..
for example until you get the tab...keep doing palmas along side it, count out loud..
having it in your head is allready half way there and u can begin on that right now...
You can do this VAL !!! and you can upload too

u will inspire the other shy beginners also..

its acceptable for any beginner to ask any questions regarding this..and ask for some help..

I am happy to provide a slowed down version if you like

quote:

Whereas the Moraito for intermediate - para nada!! Moraito is my hero, no way I'd attempt any of his music.

well if u win this one ...who knows

6 ...8 ..10 months down the track..

the moraito one is deciving...sounds harder then what it really is technically but the challenge imo lies in his aire and pulse...same as the beginner challenge

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 6:41:27

superboo

Posts: 25
Joined: Oct. 22 2008
From: San Francisco, CA

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to Florian)

i find the "beginner" selection Florian posted is far beyond me, the superbooginner. i'll happily struggle through whatever you all have to offer, though. i think all of this is a great implementation of the "it takes a village to raise a child" concept. it's inspiring that you're all willing to help in such a creative manner. thanks!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 7:06:10

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to superboo)

no problem

its greate to see beginners beeing involved.!!.and i didnt wanna be too overprotective in the selection..( tried to account for a wider range of beginners...)..( we will be help with anything)..
but since theres only 1 beginner class i tried to be somewhere between midlle of beginner and still offer a challenge.. since theres many beginner stages i realize some of you will have a longher strech some a eazyer one...same as in the intermediate

anyway this is greate, good on you for beeing a good sport about it...hope to see more joining in

if it helps any and you guys can agree on it, i can upload the beginner buleria selection with my voice counting along side of it...for those that have never done buleria before or arent confident with the timing..

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 7:12:40

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS... (in reply to Florian)

Could folk volunteering to help out in scoring/judging the various entries by competitors please make themselves known ASAP so Florian can get on with stuff?

Don't be shy, you are not being big-headed about volunteering yourself...there are many people here who have a lot of experience in listening to quality Flamenco guitar and would be doing the Forum a great service by lending us your ear for a bit and giving your opinion.

You just have to give your voting points and be able to give a brief explanation of why you voted that way.

As Flo says, the only problem is that you won't be able to enter the competition yourself.

So far there is only Flo and myself...

So come on folks, let's hear from you!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 7:30:00

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS... (in reply to Ron.M)

thanks Ron

yeah anyone can vote ...but we wanna have a list before we begin...we want the competitors to know who the judges are before beginning.(or atleast very soon)..its good to know what to expect..no surprises..we dont want it done behind closed doors..and once you commit we know that we can count on a certain amount of votes....

personally i am not too keen on whomever happens to be here on the day votes..we want it as broad and as planned and fair as possible,...we will set a deadline and you will know exactly when your vote is required..

and most important you have to be confident, stubborn and stick to your guns..dont just change your vote because a player u look up to voted a certain way..defeats the whole purpose

idealy those that wish to take the challenge ...make that a priority...we want contestants first..

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 7:52:01

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS... (in reply to Florian)

Need another judge? I'm here often enough if you need another score. I think I'm a bit beyond the challenge material now.
Let me get this right, the score will be out of 30 ?
10 points for technique, 10 for aire and 10 for compas.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 8:18:39

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS... (in reply to Pimientito)

Excellent 3 judges so far..

yes

maximum score can be 30 unless u can think of other criterias we can score separately on...the more the better our chances of not ending up with draws are..

each criteria is marked individualy out of 10

but who knows if we end up with many draws might not be so bad we can go to the Finals

might come up with even better concept ..push the challenge even further

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 8:29:41

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to Florian)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian

or imagine this theres only 7 point difference between you winning and Joe wining...everyone has cast theyr votes...and u are leading by 7 points..the only vote left to be casted is yours....will you not be tempted to give Joe a 6 ? lol ...I am human i might

Ah yes, youre right of course. I wasnt thinking about it as a competition with a winner, but more about sharing and discussing ways to play a falseta. But that is of course cool too. Im really looking forward to it. Who nominates the judges and under which criteria?

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 8:34:27

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to XXX)

quote:

Who nominates the judges and under which criteria

Anyone ...everyone...if you agree.. once we have the names of those nominated ( and they agree) and the names of those that volunteer we can better decide if what we need and whats a broad view and whats fair and how to do it..

atm...anyone...if u agree..once we know what we working with il be eazyer

quote:

I wasnt thinking about it as a competition with a winner, but more about sharing and discussing ways to play a falseta

yeah but we normally do that...i see it as a competition...the appeal in this is to give some extra motivation, extra drive and have some fun with it.....i am not in it so my only fun is driving you against eachother

i am gonna start roumers and fights and all kinds of scandals...

like " Deniz ...Arash said that il beat Deniz when it comes to aire anyday"

wich reminds me ...i got some Pming to do

the winner gets a choice between a month flamenco scolorship in Spain all expenses paid at Anders house ( u have to get in the house after he goes to sleep and leave before he wakes up everyday)...or another "flamenco giftpack"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 8:43:09

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to Florian)

Flo and everyone, thanks for considering me, but I've got too many other commitments right now. I'd want to learn those pieces inside and out, and I don't think I'll have the time to do that for at least another month or two. What you're all doing is a great idea!

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Be here now.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 9:09:09

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to NormanKliman)

Norman i nominated you to Judge...we only need you one day...listen to the audios and give us your score...like Eurovison

i never heard an audio from you so i asumed maybe you are not set up to record etc,... but i thought of you to be involved with Judging

well give you an exact date soon...

do you accept ? we want as many people from different tastes and views as possible...to make this as broad and fair and acurate as possible

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 9:11:52

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to Florian)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian

like " Deniz ...Arash said that il beat Deniz when it comes to aire anyday" wich reminds me ...i got some Pming to do

Well ok he should come. I beat him in compas anyway (it already started! LOL!).
But people should vote on the other group(s), if not in their own no? Or is it the same judges for all groups?

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 9:15:46

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to Florian)

quote:

like Eurovison

.....Royaume Uni.......nil points

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 9:17:50

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to XXX)

You are such a trouble maker Deniz

let someone else have a say...dont try to convince everyone constantly

youve just talked non stop on this thread imposed your will all day ...nobody can get a word in cause if you ...

this is sopossed to be a majority vote !! i told you ...no way man! you not voting

no wonder Arash was saying all this nasty things about you in pm..

if this is sopossed to be a democracy arent you infringing on my rights to dictate ?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 9:19:57

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to Florian)

LOL Flo... i was just trying to clear up coz what you said in page 1 kind of interferes with what Ron said here on page 2.. either way its ok to me. Im more interested in the votings itself (who votes whom how) than to win anyway.

The comment on Arash was of course a joke. I also beat him in aire too

quote:

Arash was saying all this nasty things about you in pm..

Youre aire points are getting lower and lower...

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 9:32:03

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to XXX)

quote:

The comment on Arash was of course a joke

ahem

...il make sure to explain so he dosent take it the wrong way when he sees all the things you said about him...dont worry il sort it out...youre in good hands

dont think i forghot that you didnt post any "stay" youtube videos when i said i was going last week..

if iam voting u better be better then Moraito

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 9:38:36

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to Florian)

Acctualy in between the silly joking i get some good ideas too...i think this is worth considering...to make it compleatly fair and give everyone as fair chance and fair listen and start everyone with an absolute clean sheet...and to give every person taking the challenge complete confidence in the voting...

we need one neutural member who is neither voting neither taking the challenge..and can keep a secret

everyone that takes the challenge emails his audio to this individual ...he uploads all the entries using reference numbers instead of members names etc..

u know u cant help but subconciously judge someone on his reputation and previous audios also...but if you dont know who it is it evens it right out..all u can judge is what is in front of you...alot more fair

theres also no chance of people taking it personally because we can honestly say we are judging purely on the current task.....when posting comments we dont have to worry about them thinking is personal,

and theres absolute no chance of unintentional favouritsm or disfavouritsm, you have eliminated any chance of any controversy with one eazy to do move

what do you guys think ? do you like this idea ?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 10:11:49

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to Florian)

Hello everybody. This looks like fun to me

..After the 29th im suppose to have internet again, we´ve been moving to a new flat and there was some trouble with the net. bloody anoying if you nead your daily "forofix"

..im still trying to deal with the "El tempul" challange. jejejejeje Paco was a ****in freak in his younger years. what force and power!!

Henrik

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This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 10:36:31

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to duende)

oh cool ! so you will be back and avilable to Judge ?

sorry... Hi

! welcome back

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 10:39:15

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to Florian)

quote:

we need one neutural member who is neither voting neither taking the challenge..and can keep a secret

everyone that takes the challenge emails his audio to this individual ...he uploads all the entries using reference numbers instead of members names etc..

It is quite a task, but since i am not qualified to serve as Judge (unless a legal issue should arise) nor am i planning on taking the challange, not this time (may be in the future i will), i am willing to serve as "mailbox" and escrow all names, while disclosing to the Judges and the public solely numbers. It is a great idea, Florian, to preserve a fair unprejudiced judgment, but also which would encourage timid members to participate.

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 11:33:28

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to Florian)

I would prefer to discuss the winner instead of laying the power in the hands of 3-4 people...(and one of them cant stand me I think.. (u_u);, It really makes me sad, but I swear, Im not disliking anybody here no mater what happened in past.) So, maybe I would have a handicap... Couldnt we nominate more judges or just discuss it? A poll wouldnt be good, because some funny people would definetely vote for the obvious worst one...

just some thoughts. Anyway the 2 falsetas are a good choose till now! Lets go on! Im happyly waiting to start practiceing!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 11:40:10

El Camino

Posts: 59
Joined: Jan. 14 2008

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to Florian)

I think this is a great idea , i would love to get involved in the foro more

and this sounds like the perfect opportunity to do so.

Count me in .

Tom.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 12:18:41

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to Florian)

quote:

Norman i nominated you to Judge...we only need you one day...listen to the audios and give us your score...like Eurovison i never heard an audio from you so i asumed maybe you are not set up to record etc,... but i thought of you to be involved with Judging

If that's all right with everyone else (I probably won't actually learn the pieces), sure, I'll do it. It'd be a pleasure and an honor.

But, wait a minute...

quote:

Im not disliking anybody here no mater what happened in past.

Huh?

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Be here now.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 12:48:07

Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to Florian)

This is great. Good job, Flo.

I had actually hoped for something like this back when the Tempul challenge started last year. Have not tried any Bulerias yet, been focusing on FDH, Alegrias and a little Rumba, but this might be a good time to start.

I'm in.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 13:37:17

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

I would prefer to discuss the winner instead of laying the power in the hands of 3-4 people...(and one of them cant stand me I think.. (u_u);, It really makes me sad, but I swear, Im not disliking anybody here no mater what happened in past.) So, maybe I would have a handicap... Couldnt we nominate more judges or just discuss it? A poll wouldnt be good, because some funny people would definetely vote for the obvious worst one...

just some thoughts. Anyway the 2 falsetas are a good choose till now! Lets go on! Im happyly waiting to start practiceing!

Yeah, my suggestion was that everyone judges, and we have a few trusted people to tally scores.

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Callidus et iracundus.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 15:24:47

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (in reply to Doitsujin)

Doit thanks to Michelob involvement noone will be able to discriminate even if they wanted too...so u have absoluteley nothing to fear ..

Thank you Gacomo...when the time comes please share your email with me so i can tell people where they have to email it..

sencondly ...it wont just be 3 judges...we have been discusing that ...it will be atleast between 8 and 20 or something like that..so rest eazy amigo...it willl be 100% fair for everyone

quote:

I think this is a great idea , i would love to get involved in the foro more

and this sounds like the perfect opportunity to do so.

Count me in .

Excellent amigo

...glad to have you ..how do you wish to take part ? taking the challenge or judging ? and if you take the challenge with class are you in ? intermediate or beginner ?

quote:

If that's all right with everyone else (I probably won't actually learn the pieces), sure, I'll do it. It'd be a pleasure and an honor.

great so now so far we have about 5 judges...it will be more then that by the end
its our pleasure to have you

quote:

I'm in.

Great ..Now we cooking with Gas !!

quote:

Yeah, my suggestion was that everyone judges, and we have a few trusted people to tally scores.

well if the the score is in the open anyone can tally the scores..

but we cant do everybody...its a competition..u cant have those compeating voting against themlefs..

also id feel more organised if we knew exactly who "everyone" is..and if everyone on the day will consist of a wide broad range of tastes..
imagine if for some crazy reason on the day u log in and all the members voting are new or unknowns to us..

I am just trying to be prepared , involve members that wouldnt otherwise give theyr opinions...eg. Norman, Sean, Kate, Jason, Grisha,as well as mix them with the regulars Ricardo , Todkk, Pimientito, Ron...etc. do something different, and yeah also offer some flamenco well educated individuals to judge..

because of the anonymus system we have just come up to there is absoluteley no way of beeing unfair even if you wanted too..if thats something that concerns you

15 peoples opinion from different angles of flamenco mixed with a fair anonymus system ...is a pretty safe ..broad way to vote.

this is a competition i dont know that a full democracy will necesarely find the best winners...thats why in any other competition noone says..."anyone can vote" its nice to be prepared with who is voting ....

I dont wanna denie anyone who wants to vote the right to vote...but i wanna know ahead..and i wanna know that hes not voting just because he can...i can become a member after 1 day of doing flamenco ...vote and my vote will count as much as Jasons..is that going to find the best winner ? is that going to be fair on the people taking the challenge..

i am not trying to be fair to everyones rights to vote just to the challengers

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2009 18:19:33