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cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

What pieces or toques are you workin... 
I am curious what people are working on. We had a thread about what people have in their repetoire that was interesting, but what are you working on?

For me, I am stuck somewhere between beginner and intermediate but that doesn't deter me - I will prevail! I refuse to give up but I do acknowledge to myself my limitations and I will just be an enthusiastic amateur... but I know I am all too over the map to learn a piece well. I just get stuck on something or a technique and then it is time to move on... and come back to it later. So I never learn anything as a complete piece, I figure that will take time.

So I'll start, in no particular order I am working on in various stages:

Guajiras de Lucia - over my head but I can play sections, the high bar chords kill me, I don't play at a good tempo, and I sound not too good

Rumbas - Rumba Nostalgica (good for Alzapua practice), parts of Inspiration, and I noodle with Pharaon

Sevillanas - Amaj, Dmaj in particular, gotta get those dialed then on to Flo's stuff - good for focusing on rasgueo practice

Solea - various falsetas including some of Paco's badly

Bulerias - various old time falsetas and strums - I keep repeating the same ones over and over again, need to work on some more...

Tangos - dabble a bit with Romperseserones (sp?) - some nice falsetas in there (thank you Moraito!) that I gotta work on but where to find the time? I spend too much here wahhh...

Air on G string - still hard but I can see myself putting that together with a concentrated effort over a couple of weeks, except my memory is bad and I always forget where to go next - how to overcome I do not know.

a few Christmas songs (keep working on every once in a while to improve and get better sound, but that has dropped-off till next year)

And finally, jammin sometimes with Cortez the Killer cranked! Yahhhh!

How about you???
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 12 2009 18:36:54
 
srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to cathulu) 
Since I found I dance class to work with a couple of months ago, almost all of my practicing and playing has been geared towards preparing for that- just very basic compas, llamadas and such. It’s looking likely that we’re going to be playing at a community arts event in about three months, so now’s there’s going to be a handful of things that I’m going to have to work on and get tight in preparation for that. I don’t feel at all ready for it, but there’s nothing like some external pressure to get you motivated to get some work done.

Tientos- the teacher just gave me a recording of a tientos that she has a bit of choreography for. As recorded it’s a bit beyond my reach, but I definitely have some similar, simpler material to swap out, while keeping the whole piece close to what she’s used to working with. I feel pretty good about this one.

Sevillanas- I always thought sevillanas was pretty easy, just playing it by rote, straight from tabs, but it’s been a surprisingly difficult struggle to learn to strum a simple, danceable sevillanas that actually ends when the dancers expect it to! Keeping the proper compas with the accents and the chord changes in the right spots has been tricky, but I finally made sense of it earlier this week. Now I need really solidify that understanding, and be able to play it properly, consistently.

Bulerias- After a lot of shaky, on/off work on bulerias since last spring, I’ve finally got some basic compas stuff down. It’s still slow and rough around the edges, but I feel like I do have my foot in the door, know my away around the compas without just playing the same thing exactly the same each time, and know what I need to keep working on. I finally felt comfortable and confident enough to take a stab at learning a first falseta a week or two ago, and that was pretty satisfying and felt like a breakthrough moment.

Alegrias- basic stuff, simple falsetas.

Farruca- This is the one I feel most confident in, and I have enough different strumming patterns and falsetas to keep things interesting.

Solea por Bulerias- The teacher wants to do one of these, but I have zero experience playing it, wouldn’t even know where to start. I was upfront about it and told her that that’s the one thing I just might not be able to pull off, and she seemed fine with that. But I do want to at least try to figure out some basic compas and try to put something together.

Neil Young and Crazy Horse- Big, big fan, and Zuma is one of my favorites, but for whatever reason, I’ve never really taken to Cortez. I even think it’s a great song, but I just don’t get a lot of enjoyment from it, personally. Barstool Blues, on the other hand, is a straight-up mammajamma!

Oh, and a Fandangos de Huelva, too, which is pretty fun to play, though I need to come up with something a bit more interesting than the same, boring chords I keep strumming over and over....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 12 2009 19:46:28
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to cathulu)2 votes
I´m in situation close to that of Adam.

I´m following a course of accompanying cante so most of my energy goes towards that.
So far
Fandangos de Huelva, Alegrias, Tientos, Tangos, Granaina, Petenera. More to come.

Besides that I work on basic tecnique and I play what I can with loops and metronome.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 12 2009 23:43:56
 
Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
Funnily enough I'm thinking of going back to technique and just really working at it. I practice about half an hour technique every day, and about an hour, hour and a half on pieces.

For the last three months I've been working on:
Solea, Tientos/Tangos, Minera, Rumba and Verdiales. Also learnt some Tanguillos but can't play it yet!

Obviously there's loads more palos to learn but unless I improve my technique they are never going to sound the way I want them to. So I figure if I really do some hard technical work for a bit then come back to the pieces they might sound better - that's my dream anyway!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2009 2:13:57
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to cathulu) 
Taranta - from Jason (he added lessons on his website for the complete Taranta A Mi Arthuro some time ago ..)

Rondena - from Ricardo

Both very hard to play at some parts.....

---

Alegrias - from Ricardo (no way! )......too hard! even at lower speed...but i wont give up till i die.... )

---

I have to admit that i tend to overestimate my skills and try to learn pieces which are way over my abilities and get dissapointed many times,,,,, but thats my nature.....however, there is also some sence of achievement now and then....

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2009 4:27:24
 
henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to Arash) 
for the last three months, its been solea por buleria falsetas from alain fauchers, various tientos falsetas, siguiriyas and trying to do some begginer stuff for taranta taranto and minera. the levante stuff is very beautiful very much call and response and really lush chords pleasing to the ear.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2009 5:05:54
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to henrym3483) 
Open question: how do most here go about learning a new piece....?
1. by ear
2. using tabs
3. using standard notation
4. a blend of the above methods

_____________________________

gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2009 5:38:20
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to cathulu) 
I use tabs to get the fingerings, and look at the notation to figure out
how it's supposed to be played. Then if possible I listen to it to see how
it is supposed to sound .... Then I wonder why it doesn't when I play it ...

Cheers,
Jeff
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2009 5:52:02
 
Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to cathulu) 
Right now....fandangos de huelva/ tabs/videos etc.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2009 6:06:36
 
ricecrackerphoto

Posts: 265
Joined: Feb. 5 2006
 

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to cathulu) 
cortez the killer! just had to select that on the ipod so i could listen to it while i write.

i'm ditching set pieces and all but the most basic falsetas, and working on basic strumming compas for solea, alegrias, bulerias, rumba, columbiana.

also am revisiting my tremolo and working on it at a very slow tempo.

doug
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2009 6:36:33
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to gj Michelob) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: gj Michelob

Open question: how do most here go about learning a new piece....?
1. by ear
2. using tabs
3. using standard notation
4. a blend of the above methods


by Video (for me the best and easiest)

If no Video available CD (ear) + Tabs

i cant read notes

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2009 8:00:39
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to cathulu)1 votes
I prefer to use ears and eyes. But sometimes I use tabs.

When I have lessons I grab them with a digicam

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2009 9:04:02
 
Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to gj Michelob) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: gj Michelob

Open question: how do most here go about learning a new piece....?
1. by ear
2. using tabs
3. using standard notation
4. a blend of the above methods

First of all listen loads and loads, because once it's clear in my head it's much easier to learn the notes. Then learn by copying the teacher, whether in a lesson, or from the video later - like Anders I always take a video of the material. I don't know how people remembered their lessons before we had video!!

_____________________________

http://www.flamencojourney.com
http://www.myspace.com/flamencojourney
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2009 9:31:37
 
duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to cathulu)1 votes
i dont play anything, i just hold the guitar in my lap and surf the web...

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2009 10:46:37
 
Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to gj Michelob) 
quote:

Open question: how do most here go about learning a new piece....?
1. by ear
2. using tabs
3. using standard notation
4. a blend of the above methods


I don't use standard notation because
a/ its usually inaccurate and
b/it doesnt give you the fingering.
c/ unlike classical guitar, you need the recording to work out what the piece will sound like.

I met some guys who could listen to any piece a half dozen times and play it but they are pretty rare. Emilio Maya can do that and so can Juan Habichuela Nieto. Saying that they are both gypsies who have been playing since childhood. I'll use a tab and use it to play along to a recording or use a recording to make my own tab and learn that....some would say its wrong but thats just how I learn. Even if I have a video or a lesson I have to write it down. In Sanlucar I'm the guy running round with pages of tab madly scribbling through most of the course. If I play be ear I get the fingering wrong and forget what I've worked out a week later. This does mean it takes me a while to learn stuff but once its there I generally retain it for a long time.

_____________________________

Follow my blog http://pimientito.wordpress.com/

"Ceremonial" by Mark Shurey "Pimientito". CD and digital download vailable on Amazon and
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2009 11:10:40
 
ddk

Posts: 155
Joined: Jan. 10 2006
From: California

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to Arash) 
I too do well learning from video. (Jason's lessons work well for me) Even though I love to try to learn and play complicated falsetas, lately I've been trying to perfect the basics. On Gerardo's DVD lessons during the rasqueado section, he plays some basic Bularias and I've been trying to learn his basic patterns really well instead of glossing over the details.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2009 12:28:37
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to cathulu)2 votes
quote:

i dont play anything, i just hold the guitar in my lap and surf the web...




_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2009 13:25:08
 
MarkMc

Posts: 121
Joined: Oct. 1 2005
From: Wilsonville, Oregon

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to cathulu) 
Well when I do have time to practice, I've been trying to wrap my brain around bulerias. I've been working on some Quique Paredes & Moraito falsetas & compas. But just recently I've been working on the Nino Ricardo bulerias from Paco Pena's album, "Flamenco guitar music of R. Montoya & Nino Ricardo". I've do have some Nino Ricardo Jucales bulerias tabs from off the net, but I really like the way Paco Pena arranged and plays it on this album. It's so much more driving and gnarly. The tough part was figuring out the compas patterns... I'm still wondering if I got it right...

cheers!

_____________________________

-MarkMc
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2009 16:21:23
 
michel

Posts: 315
Joined: Apr. 14 2008
From: france

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to cathulu) 
i'm also something between beginner/intermediate
i'm working on
1. farruca: old style and easy to play version - i want it to be my opening tune and i'd like to be able to play for a little audience (at my stage family & friends) even if i'm nervous
2. soleares: especially the solea-escobilla from manuel granados book - i mix juan martin / m. granados and graf-martinez falsetas
3. bulerias: with very few falsetas - much compas, trying to switch between 2 beats and 3 beats feeling
4. tangos
5. taranta (tremolo part on B-string)
6. fandango de huelva
7. tanguillos (traditional): taking merengue de cordobas version and completing it with falsetas "by ear" in melchor de marchena style - maybe one of my most "advanced" palos
8. sevillanas (from juan martin)
9. rumba in nino miguel style
...and the most important; not practicising it automaticly every day.
having a break for a few days helps me apreciating the sound of the guitar
and of my repertoire. I'd like to keep an artistic intention in the music. playing everything everyday doesn't make much sense for me in the moment.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2009 0:17:41
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to Pimientito) 
quote:

I'll use a tab and use it to play along to a recording or use a recording to make my own tab and learn that....some would say its wrong but thats just how I learn. Even if I have a video or a lesson I have to write it down. If I play be ear I get the fingering wrong and forget what I've worked out a week later.


that's more or less the same for me....

quote:

In Sanlucar I'm the guy running round with pages of tab madly scribbling through most of the course.


if i ever make it to one of gerardo's courses you'll only have to scribble half as madly 'cos there'll be 2 of us!

i was gonna post some about what i've been learning/practising/playing lately but given some of the negativity lately about flamenco outside spain, about solo guitar, and about anything composed or recorded after about the '50's i'm not feeling much like it....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2009 4:50:22
 
cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to mark indigo) 
No, please post. Don't let the wags get you down! I love these posts, very inspirational. I think I am going to log off and practice now...

Flo, Ricardo, Todd, what are you guys working on? I guess I know what Todd is doing, trying to tell the difference between his I and M.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2009 18:19:02
 
michel

Posts: 315
Joined: Apr. 14 2008
From: france

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to mark indigo) 
quote:

i was gonna post some about what i've been learning/practising/playing lately but given some of the negativity lately about flamenco outside spain, about solo guitar, and about anything composed or recorded after about the '50's i'm not feeling much like it....


it's the same for me! i had the intention to upload a farruca, with my very basic technique, weaknesses and mistakes... simply to give an example, how an "advanced" beginner sounds, but the upload section only contains youtube links and uploads from very advanced players (i like them also, that's not the point) but no one of us would dare to upload a file which doesn't sound perfectly pro, that's sad and makes the upload section a little bit lifeless...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 15 2009 0:13:28
 
cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to michel) 
Come ON! Hey, I uploaded my Soleares falseta (go look for it), it was not good by any stretch, partly to get some feedback and to confirm I am working in the right direction, and partly to encourage others in a similar boat as me to upload something. I got some nice feedback too.

I want to hear your stuff, beginner or intermediate. You may not sound great but so what? You might have a nice falseta or phrasing I can get excited about and try and replicate, even if you stumble in it.

I will give you nice feedback and you will feel good about putting something out there, if only to revisit in a year and wonder how much better you have gotten!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 15 2009 9:06:32
 
mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to cathulu) 
I'm a slow learner. Always working on getting down compases and a handful of falsetas rather than learning full pieces.

Right now I'm working on Fandangos de Huelva and Alegrias, just getting the bare skeletons down for accompaniment so I can be useful for my singing friend (Thanks Norman for sharing the nice set of FdH falsetas). Also going back to lessons I've had on solea accompaniment to get the hang of some less common (for me) verses.

I'm also exploring the fretboard more generally, finding my way around chords and scales by doing improvisation exercises. Other than that I'm trying to get some flow into the ol' Villa-Lobos Etude 1, inspired by some of the youtube clips HemeolaMan posted.

I like learning from video, and I also like transcribing stuff that is at a level I can figure out, but what I would really like now is to take some lessons from a live guitar teacher.. long overdue.

@michel

Don't be discouraged! I agree with you and Cathulu, I too would like to see more of the less advances players in the Upload section, to get some more life into it (a mix of all levels).
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 15 2009 10:01:58
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to michel) 
quote:

i was gonna post some about what i've been learning/practising/playing lately

it's the same for me! i had the intention to upload a farruca


i wasn't talking about uploading, i was saying i don't even want to SAY what i been playing!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 15 2009 10:31:00
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to cathulu) 
Im focussing on variations of compasses and llamadas at the moment. I dont practice complete pieces. Only single falsetas which I can use or bring me further. Try to get more up and downs in phrasing of my playing.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 15 2009 12:59:24
 
Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to cathulu) 
quote:

I am curious what people are working on. We had a thread about what people have in their repetoire that was interesting, but what are you working on?


Mainly Alegrias bits:
Paco - Recuerdo a Patino, Mi inspiracion and Barrio la vina
Sabicas - Ole mi Cadiz
Vicente - Maestro Sanlucar
Chicuelo - Dulce Sal

..also just looked back at some old Farruca stuff from Paco Pena.

quote:

Open question: how do most here go about learning a new piece....?
1. by ear
2. using tabs
3. using standard notation
4. a blend of the above methods


I've got a really good method that works great for me and halves my learning time.

Any tab I have which I can't just play off the page, or am unfamiliar with the original piece.I spend some time writing it into guitar pro. this then gives me the option to play the tab back to me at whichever speed I like, with a click,(loop it if I want) and I can play along. In effect its like having a teacher playing for me when ever I want.

I start real slow and build up speed when I'm comfortable with it. (it has an inbuilt speed trainer)
This process (of writing the tab into Guitar Pro) has really helped me understand note timings/phrasing and how beats are divided up.

I often find I spend more time doing the transcribing than actually playing though.


Stu
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 15 2009 14:27:49
 
John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to cathulu) 
quote:

I often find I spend more time doing the transcribing than actually playing though

But how the time flies!!! Really, if you get a full day to only play guitar, time yourself learning a piece before and after repetition - it's amazing how time consuming it can be getting it set up right before you even start practicing

The one thing I can suggest from my experience - try to learn and !understand! many new things often, and make sure it's right and that you really understand it rhythmically. I write this because I've gotten off the beaten track often enough. The learning process can be trained as well and those passages that hurt your head get easier the more of them you learn.

Make sure you have the rhythm down exactly right before doing repetitions - the more rhythmically complex things you learn the easier it gets to "feel" and you'll find the concepts repeat themselves often. When I learn difficult passages I put little dots above the notes/tab where the beats are for a better overview and with really tough stuff I write the 3, 6, 8, 10, 12 above to make sure I didn't miss a beat somewhere.

I learn by falseta for the ideas, accompanyment is what I mostly do nowadays and I'm a ways along with still quite a bit to learn. I'm a huge fan of Encuentro and Ritmo Flamenco and have them all. If you have enough falsetas you can just link them together - the Encuentro series will give you about 8 minutes of non-stop buleria falsetas...

_____________________________

Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 15 2009 15:14:42
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14839
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to cathulu) 
Rumba.





....seriously...



_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 16 2009 6:06:11
 
John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: What pieces or toques are you wo... (in reply to Ricardo) 
No kidding?

I have been doing rumba recently, I'm new in a group that does a lot of rumba gitana so I've been learning all the repertoire this past week including Rio Ancho. I always kind of steered clear of rumba because of it not being "real flamenco", it's what people wanna hear though, so...

Difficult thing for me is doing the covers exactly like on the album - and to be honest I never really learned the percussive rumba strum, but I'm getting it down now. It's a hell of lot of fun when you have the repertoire down.

_____________________________

Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 17 2009 0:27:26
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