Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
|
|
|
Accompanying a Dance Class!?! Week Two
|
You are logged in as Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic: none
|
|
Login  | |
|
  
srshea
Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest
|
 Accompanying a Dance Class!?! Week Two
|
|
|
I’ve very recently and unexpectedly gotten in touch with some one who’s conducting a beginning dance class here in my small town (unexpected because I haven’t noticed any real signs of flamenco life here previously), and, if all goes as planned, I’ll be accompanying my first dance class on Thursday.
The good news is that, from what I gather, this will probably be a strictly ground-level, true-beginner group of students, so everything is probably going to be very basic and slow. I’m no great shakes as a player, but I feel reasonably confident that I can pull off some basic, moderate-tempo compas strumming for most of the stuff being covered, without making too much of an ass of myself. They’ve been working with recorded music so far, so I think the teacher’s looking forward to working with a live guitarist, however crummy. So, I think expectations on both sides are sober but enthusiastic.
The bad news is, well, I guess there really isn’t any bad news aside from the fact that I have no idea what I’m doing. I’m sure I’ll have plenty of questions to ask once this ball gets rolling. For now I’m just excited/terrified, flailing about. If anyone has any general, preliminary advice to offer, it would be accepted graciously.
Alright, I gotta go dust off that metronome.
Adam
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 2 2008 16:09:38
 |
|
Mark2
Posts: 1877
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
|
RE: Accompanying a Dance Class!?! Go... (in reply to srshea)
|
|
|
|
Congrats as your entering a very exciting and enjoyable aspect of flamenco guitar playing. Compas is king, always. Also, as you get going , study the steps themselves(might want to bring a small recorder), just as if they were falsetas-you will start to recognize the various patterns as they relate to the compas. Watch vids, other guitarists, etc. Rome wasn't built in a day, and it will take you a while to amass all the stuff you may one day need to know. Enjoy the journey. A guy told me you need a thousand little chops to play for dance-you learn as many as you can one at a time. Thicken your skin, as sometimes you will be told you are doing it wrong, but the person telling you may have no idea how to inform you of the right way. It is a strange thing for a musician to be judged by people who don't play an instrument, but you are there to accompany the dancer. To help them and make them look good. All the stuff you learn along the way is gravy. Stick with it and your compas will improve by leaps. Have fun!
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 2 2008 16:41:10
|
|
ToqueNW
Posts: 16
Joined: Nov. 20 2008
From: Seattle
|
|
RE: Accompanying a Dance Class!?! Go... (in reply to srshea)
|
|
|
Hi Adam,
You've got some good advice here so far and I agree with all of it. I'm hesitant to be too obnoxious with the self-promo, but I've written a couple of articles on dance accompaniment--you can find them here if you're interested. I'm sure I don't have anywhere near the experience as some here on the foro, but another point of view seldom hurts.
Otherwise, there are two comments already made above that I'll elaborate on (if I may). First: the Solo Compas tracks are a good way to build variety in your basic rhythm. If you play the same twelve beats of solea over and over again for an hour, you're likely to want to kill yourself (if you haven't been murdered already). Working out your own variations is good, too (though it takes more effort), but I don't recommend doing this (i.e. working new stuff out) while accompanying--it's a sure way to slip in a 13 or 14 (which will surely be noticed).
Second: definitely go in with a thick skin. An anecdote: A year ago or so I was comping a class for the teacher I play for now (Rubina Carmona). At one point she started giving me grief about something--I forget now what it was, but I don't think I deserved it (for once). I didn't say anything, but afterward she told me a story: Her husband, Marcos, was once comping a class in Spain and the instructor was riding him about driving the tempo. After class, Marcos went to the teacher and said, "Look, I don't want to tell you what's up, but I wasn't driving the tempo; your dancers were driving the tempo." The instructor just looked at him and said, "Yes, I know, but they pay me and I pay you. So I yell at you, not them."
I don't suspect you'll get that kind of abuse around here, but it helped me to know that not everything is personal (indeed, most things aren't).
Anyway, good luck and have fun. I hope you'll post an update on how it's going.
Best,
Andy
_____________________________
Ravenna Flamenco
www.ravennaflamenco.com
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 3 2008 21:45:16
|
|
srshea
Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest
|
|
RE: Accompanying a Dance Class!?! Go... (in reply to srshea)
|
|
|
Well, I survived, and overall I’d say it went “alright”. We started off with bulerias, which I had told the instructor was not my strongest suit, so I guess it was a bit of a trial by fire. Moved on to tangos which went much smoother, and we spent much of the rest of the class on that. Finished up with some sevillanas which I made a total hash of due to my right hand being wiped out from repeating the same tangos compas over and over for fifteen/twenty minutes. So, there were some rough spots to be sure, and I felt like I was way over my head and totally faking it more than once, but in the end I felt pretty good about it and encouraged about doing it again in the future. Wasn’t a whole lot in the way of concrete, tangible lessons learned, but the experience of feeling things out and getting a vaguely intuitive sense of what works and what doesn’t and how and why was a good, healthy start, I think.
One tangible take-away was learning to what extent I can just focus on knocking out a solid rhythm and not worry about certain other things. It hadn’t occurred to me that all the stomping and clomping would drown out some of the minor, non rhythmic, imperfections in my playing. So, realizing that no one was really going to notice I if I didn’t finger each and every chord perfectly and cleanly really took a lot of pressure off and allowed me to forget about my left hand and just concentrate on strumming and trying to project a good, solid compas, hitting the accents, etc.
We met a second time on Saturday, which was, again, an episode of hit and miss, trial and error experimentation, but ultimately another nudge in the right direction. The instructor doesn’t actually have a lot of experience working with a live guitar player, so I think I’m going to be largely on my own in terms of working out what to play and when, without much guidance. So, I’ve got my work cut out for me. The situation has its ups and downs: I’m able to strum basic stuff over and over, which allows them to work on basic steps for long stretches of time in a way that working with recorded music doesn’t. But, by that same token, they’re used to dancing to music infinitely tighter and more sophisticated than my rudimentary fiddling, so….. When I showed up for the first class the instructor played me a professional, high-level, modern, syncopated bulerias that they had been working with, which had little to no relation to my own bargain-basement, entry-level bulerias, and asked if I could play something like that. Yikes.
So, got another one coming up Thursday. I think the plan of action ‘til then is to duct tape the metronome to the side of my head and then work out the simplest possible, but still useable, stuff to play, stuff with some “space” in it, that’s not too busy and is easier to play for long stretches. I’m sure I’ll have plenty of questions pop in the coming weeks, so, in the meantime, thanks again for all the preliminary advice and words of encouragement. It really is appreciated.
Adam
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 8 2008 0:32:18
|
|
srshea
Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest
|
|
RE: Accompanying a Dance Class!?! We... (in reply to srshea)
|
|
|
Hello, everybody.
At the risk of boring y’all more than is necessary, I’m going to try and keep this thread running for while. As I start coming up with specific questions I think I’ll start new threads, but I also want to try to keep this going to document the process of starting out from the very, very beginning in dance accompaniment, as a sort of chronicle of one man’s journey from cluelessness to, hopefully, some sort of competence. Hopefully it might be of some interest to others learning to accompany to follow a rough narrative of the learning process, enhanced by the advice of other more experienced players along the way (hint, hint), and perhaps future generations may one day come to drink from the fount of knowledge and experience that pours forth from this thread. This is of course all premised on the assumption that I’ll actually be able to come up with something semi-interesting to say about all this on an ongoing basis. Which brings me to….
And so, after having built up my grand concept and the attendant expectations to towering heights, I’ve actually got nothing interesting to say as of yet. Week two went notably smoother. I felt a lot more relaxed and self-confident. The first time around I was much more nervous and was overly concerned about the possibility of screwing up, and so, in an excess of caution, I just played the same very simple chords over and over and over, too afraid to risk any adjustment. This time around I felt much more loosened up and was able to mix in a little more variety in the chord progressions and strumming patterns. Aside from being less boring this is, of course, much easier on the hands than repeating the same two chords and rasgeado a million times. It’s not going to happen instantly, but I think that, in the coming weeks, I’ll somewhat quickly be able to come up with a small, dependable repertoire of basic stuff I can play without getting too bored or too tired. At this point all the stuff being covered is just beginning technique and steps, so I don’t yet need to worry about how all the parts of the dance fit together and for the most part can just sit there and strum basic compas.
Regarding the issue of volume and amplification mentioned above by Andy and xirdneH_imiJ, that’s definitely something that’s been on my mind. For now, at least, I’m gonna go au natural. The class doesn’t go much more than 60-90 minutes once or twice a week, so I don’t feel like I’m at too great a risk of straining myself, and I also want to experiment with and figure out certain issues of volume control and projection, things that, as a bedroom player, I’ve never had to deal with before. But if I do start doing this more frequently under louder, longer circumstances then I do think I might pursue alternative means of making myself louder, because, man, that stompin’ is hard to compete with.
All in all I feel pretty good and think I’m headed in the right direction. The one issue that’s troubling me most is keeping a steadiness in the tempo, but that’s a matter for another thread…..
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 13 2008 19:35:03
|
|
srshea
Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest
|
|
RE: Accompanying a Dance Class!?! We... (in reply to srshea)
|
|
|
Oh, I forgot to get into the whole touchy-feely, inspirational aspect of all this.
I hit my two-year flamenco anniversary about three months ago and, finding that I wasn’t at the point of progress that I had hoped to be, I got kind of discouraged, and the guitar fell by the wayside. I’m sure all of you out there who are studying on your own and playing strictly on your own can identify with this on some level. It can be pretty isolating, and oftentimes hard to maintain a certain focus and direction. You hit certain peaks and plateaus and low points; the inspiration comes and goes; it can get hard to assess your progress without direct, external feedback; and without having specific things to work on for any real specific purposes, it can sometimes be hard to maintain a sense of purpose. For me, at least. I feel like, on the whole, I’ve done a pretty decent job keeping a reasonable amount of focus and direction on my own, but when I hit that two year milestone and realized that I was largely in the same spot I had been in for most of the previous year, I got bummed and pretty much dropped out. I didn’t touch the guitar more that a few times in a couple of months, started listening to more Bach and Vaughn-Williams, and less Terremoto and Pepe Habichuela, and for the first time started to question what my long-term interest and involvement in flamenco was going to be.
I had been sitting on the number for the woman doing the dance class for a couple of months, and I’m not sure why I finally decided to contact her when I did, but at any rate, this has been exactly what I needed at this time. My interest and enthusiasm are reinvigorated; having specific needs to address in my own playing as pertains to the class has given me a focus and direction and motivation that I have felt in a long time, if at all. And it’s just nice to get out of the house, and it’s nice to work collaboratively with some actual living, breathing people, regardless of how clumsy and primitive the level I’m working at happens to be right now.
This evening I head up to Seattle to have a first guitar lesson, observe a beginning dance class, and watch the rehearsal for Carmona Flamenco’s big, year end blow-out performance (all kindly facilitated by Andy). So, should be an educational and inspirational crash course for me.
Adam
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 15 2008 13:06:06
|
|
edguerin
Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania
|
|
RE: Accompanying a Dance Class!?! We... (in reply to srshea)
|
|
|
I know just how you feel/felt!
I had been into flamenco for some years, had attended a couple of courses (Graf-Martinez, Phillipe Donnier), was playing with a friend. He rapidly surpassed me, as he could invest much more time in practice etc.
Then I booked a class in Cordoba with Paco Serrano, and came back completely frustrated: about 30 students of all levels (obviously all of them better than me  ) no real help ("ahora tu", and if you didn't grasp the falseta by the second go, Paco or his assistant lost interest). My friend moved away...
The next ten years saw a rather steady decline in my flamenco enthusiasm. In the end I wasn't playing my guitar at all any more and hardly listened to flamenco.
My love to flamenco was revived about a year or so ago (I'm not quite sure how or why). The foro has been very helpful in giving me the feeling of being connected.
I visited Anders this summer, and am waiting for my new guitar, replacing my old M.Bellido.
Accompanying a dance class (or _one_ dancer or a singer) would be great, but I'm afraid it's a flamenco desert around here ... 
_____________________________
Ed
El aficionado solitario
Alemania
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 16 2008 0:12:01
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts
|
|
|
Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET |
0.09375 secs.
|
Printable Version
