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Germanic influence on Flamenco?
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cathulu
Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan
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 Germanic influence on Flamenco?
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A bit of a philosophical question...
Just reading this book called "Flamenco" published in 1985 edited by Claus Schreiner. So the essays in the book and ideas that bore them go back, perhaps into the 60s and earlier.
In the book, one gets the definte feeling the "dedicated group of flamenco enthusiasts", all Germans, lament the modernization of flamenco with newer more vulgar, commercial flamenco music.
Funny, this is similar to the German ideals of the American West and the American Indian. They have all kinds of cowboy and indian clubs re-living the old west according to their ideals, distorted as they may be.
This patronistic attidude and belief in the "noble savage", I wonder, may have contributed to current trends like old school and new school flamenco, and infected our minds. I am half German by the way... and I am proud of my heritage so fellow Germans don't take this the wrong way.
Just wondering how this early German influence may have affected our views in appreciating the music... German culture is interesting, one of the few places that have no speed limits on highways yet is very rule bound.
What if they took a view of improvement and modernization? That was also a prevalent thought back then - in particular the European Immigrants take on the American Indian.
Food for thought anyways.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 1 2008 20:14:17
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Ricardo
Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Germanic influence on Flamenco? (in reply to cathulu)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cathulu
Yes, I have to check out this Pohren guy, he is quoted a lot.
My feeling however nieve and ill-informed was that the Germans were a fairly influential group on this modern rediscovery of Flamenco. There is not much in the bookstore - one of the only books was the Flamenco book I mentioned. What should I make of that then?
Granted, my language could have been better phrased though. If not the Germans, who else? Pohren,,, and???
Even the Gypsies do not live in a vacuum - they must have felt the influence. Look at the American thread to see influence!
my opinion is that during the 50's through maybe 70's, many flamenco artists left spain, and more than just tour they settled in other countries, namely America. The result was the concept of "flamenco" got frozen in time for a while of what flamenco actually is, and the evolutions that took place in Spain had no affect or purpose. Hence the feeling that more modern flamenco styles don't seem to fit the description of flamenco is (was), in places outside of spain, and it is hard to accept for certain audiences and mind sets.
Pohren's book is the only one that was available forever and (probably now too) in the library in America on the subject. It was full of very good information about "puro flamenco", but at the same time very slanted in a personal direction and very opinionated. A smart reader will take the opinions with a grain of salt, and extract the excellent info from his books. Pictures too are good.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 4 2008 5:29:48
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runner
Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA
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RE: Germanic influence on Flamenco? (in reply to cathulu)
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Interesting thread. The best ways to "know" what is (or isn't) flamenco are to listen to a lot of it and also to read a lot about it. The book Cathulu referenced--Flamenco: Gypsy Music and Dance from Andalusia, edited by Claus Schreiner, is an excellent one. All of the books by Donn Pohren--The Art of Flamenco, Lives and Legends of Flamenco, A Way of Life--are classics. Best to get the 2005 (6th) edition of The Art, as it has Pohren's final thoughts and opinions as to where he thinks flamenco is headed. Paco Sevilla's biography of Carmen Amaya, Queen of the Gypsies, is a great overview of flamenco during the first half of the 20th Century. For a revealing insight into what Gypsy life (in Eastern Europe) is really like, read Isabel Fonseca's Bury Me Standing. Fonseca lived with and interviewed Gypsies all over Eastern Europe during the 1990s. A real eye-opener.
A question that comes up over and over is--Is flamenco whatever somebody decides to call flamenco? Or are there specific things or traits or features that make flamenco really flamenco? Books can help you decide. There are actually people who say that "Smooth Jazz" radio stations aren't really playing jazz. They also don't think that Kenny G is a jazz musician. I don't listen to jazz, so I don't know. But I know that, if I did like jazz (or thought I did), I'd try to find out by reading and listening as much as I could.
runner
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 24 2008 6:07:30
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