Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





How do you count Seguiriyas?   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
[Poll]

How do you count Seguiriyas?
[b]1[/b] 2 [b]3[/b] 4 [b]5[/b] 6 7 [b]8[/b] 9 10 [b]11[/b] 12
  10% (2)
[b]1 [/b] and [b]2[/b] and [b]3[/b] and a [b]4[/b] and a [b]5 [/b] a
  40% (8)
[b]8[/b] 9 [b]10[/b] 11 [b]12[/b] 1 2 [b]3 [/b] 4 5 [b]6 [/b] 7
  15% (3)
[b]12[/b] 1 [b]2 [/b] 3 [b]4[/b] 5 6 [b]7[/b] 8 9 [b]10[/b] 11
  10% (2)
I don't count because compas is in my soul ;-)
  25% (5)


Total Votes : 20
(last vote on : Feb. 22 2014 6:57:26) 
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

How do you count Seguiriyas? 
In my short involvement with flamenco I've already been taught 4 different ways of counting this palo. Maybe there are still others? They are:

Robin Totton's book 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

First dance teacher 1 and 2 and 3 and a 4 and a 5 and

First guitar teacher 8 9 10 11 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Second guitar teacher 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

Any views or suggestions anyone?

PS - Sorry guys, the bolds don't seem to have worked in the poll bit - if anyone can help with that please say!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2008 10:36:25
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1890
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: How do you count Seguiriyas? (in reply to Ailsa) 
i just count 1 2 1 2 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2, but if i had to go with any of the above, i'd go with your first guitar teacher's way...the dance teacher's right too, the rest are just there to confuse you :)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2008 10:51:20
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: How do you count Seguiriyas? (in reply to Ailsa) 
i would always use 12 beat system. the accents remain all the same in all palos, so you can structurize your rythm patterns easier and also switch easier between palos, coz you have structure for all palos. you just start different from palo to palo, and in bulerias you dont always start on 12 either. so, counting with 1s and 2s would make me confused very fast.

as a general rule, i think its better to think in a way that each beat in this 12 beats has its own meaning and rythmical value IMO.

_____________________________

Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2008 11:25:34
 
henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: How do you count Seguiriyas? (in reply to XXX) 
i count it 1 2 3 and a 4 and a 5 and

the only way i can get my head round the falsetas i by counting em out real slow. siguiriyas would proably be one of my favourite palo's. gerardo's remache is a great modern version, i listen to it on my ipod every day.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2008 12:51:20
 
Jenny

 

Posts: 97
Joined: Mar. 13 2007
From: Oxford, UK

RE: How do you count Seguiriyas? (in reply to Ailsa) 
Same here - 1 & 2 & 3 & a 4 & a 5 &

Kind of feels too busy and rushed counting it in 12 to me..
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2008 13:15:24
 
John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: How do you count Seguiriyas? (in reply to Jenny) 
quote:

8 9 10 11 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7


I started out this way and changed to 1 2 1 2 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2. Seguiriyas can get really fast with some pretty complex llamadas towards the end if you accompany the dance, it's good to get used to counting it all out.

My experience was dancers count starting at 12 and guitarists at 8.

_____________________________

Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2008 18:22:49
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: How do you count Seguiriyas? (in reply to Ailsa) 
I count it this way but it doesn't mean I know what I'm doing musically as I don't read music.

1-2-3-4-5-6-1-2-3-4-5-6 and alternate.
1----3---5----1------4

_____________________________

Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 16 2008 18:21:15
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: How do you count Seguiriyas? (in reply to Ailsa) 
Hi Alisia,

the first dance teacher and the first guitarteacher were right.

Robin Totton's book and the second guitarteacher are wrong.

As guitarrist I would prefer the way which your first guitarteacher told you. If you just count like 1 2 1 2 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 you dont know exactly everytime on which 1 or 2 you are. Its difficult during composing. So I would use starting from 7 with no accent , than (8) 9 (10) 11 (12) 1 2 (3) 4 5 (6) and again the start from the 7. That gives you the best control. Anyway, a wise person once said: A siguiryas is a Gay Bulerias, because it starts from behind. ... Well.. not my words, but also right.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 16 2008 19:22:18
 
John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: How do you count Seguiriyas? (in reply to Doitsujin) 


_____________________________

Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 16 2008 19:25:24
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: How do you count Seguiriyas? (in reply to Ailsa) 
lol

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 16 2008 21:21:43
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: How do you count Seguiriyas? (in reply to Ailsa) 
I dont' count it anymore, but when I did or would to teach palmas, the dancer way, 1.2.3..4..5.

Notation is something else I think is important. Most often you see 3/4 alternate with 6/8, but you don't have the correct down beat represented. An easy way is to look at it like two odd meter phrases. 7 + 5. The grouping is important. The 7 is X-X-X--, a VERY common rhythm in the mediterranean. The 5 grouping is X--X-, also a common rhythm. The reason for two odd patterns is the way you hear the harmony and rhythmic phrasing resolve. Bb is the 7 phrase, then A is the resolution, the 5 beat phrase. Sorry if that sounds confusing, but on paper, if one is a good reader of rhythm (where is Guitarbuddha?), that type of phrasing really captures the proper feel, and also really separates it from the other 12 count rhythms, which are more symmetrical IMO.



Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 16 2008 21:59:15
 
Doog

Posts: 59
Joined: Sep. 17 2007
From: Tennessee

RE: How do you count Seguiriyas? (in reply to henrym3483) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: henrym3483

i count it 1 2 3 and a 4 and a 5 and

the only way i can get my head round the falsetas i by counting em out real slow. siguiriyas would proably be one of my favourite palo's. gerardo's remache is a great modern version, i listen to it on my ipod every day.


Siguiriyas is one of my favorite palos. I learned to count it the way you do from a gypsy [pictured on the left - Mario Escudero's father] like this uno, dos, treees, quaaatro, cinco.

Doog
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 16 2008 23:51:27
Page:   [1]
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.0625 secs.