Questions about accompanying por bulerías

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John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

Questions about accompanying por bul...

So I've been practising with a CD which has a 32 minute nonstop fiesta por bulerias with Moraíto accompanying, which is a hell of a lot of fun. By now I can hear the Dminor, major A or E and C7. There are still a few things I don't get though:

-A letra that starts out going over C7 straight down to F (i.e. "Ay en Madrid murió Granero...") - can you catch that with the ear or do you have to know the letra? Sounds like Moraíto goes right into it with the singer.

-The whole way through not once does Moraito go down to E over F. Are those letras from a different style, more modern or is it an alternative progression?

-When they sing the last line how can one know if he needs to throw in a half compás without understanding if the singer has completed a sentence? Is there something in the voice? Some of these guys are REALLY hard to understand when they sing. One of them sings like the cookie monster

-Sometimes the singer sings so freely that it's hard to tell if it's time to go over C7 to F or if he's just going straight back to A over A#. Will this come to me with time or is there a trick?

-Practising with another guitar in the gackground is probably at a certain point about as good as singing along with the radio in the car. Are there any CDs out there with solo cante?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 5 2008 14:02:03

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Questions about accompanying por... (in reply to John O.)

The half compas thing on the last line, Moraito teaches in his vid to do this EVERY time, but really it is up to you, and I would NOT do it with say dancers I don't know. Folks from jerez won't mind it but some others will. Anyone that is really high level won't mind if you do it a lot or whenever you feel. To be safe, I almost always add the extra 6 to square it off.

About the other chord changes, you have to know the MELODIES pretty well not the letra in the sense of the lyrics. It might tip you off, but you can be fooled too if you are not familiar enough with the melodic directions a certain singer will make.

Luis el Zambo has palo seco bulerias, and the Zambo family has a nice long one. The problem is when the key changes from singer to singer, or a sing might drift out of tune a bit. The one of Miguel Poveda and Zambo starts off real good, but Zambo goes sharp at one point so you would have to re place the capo. But you can get good practice that way. Also the video of Duquende and Poveda and Chicuelo live in France, they have a long section, 5 minutes palo seco perfectly in tune before Chicuelo comes in with chords. Also on the CD of Qwaali Poveda does that section alone, again very long and in tune.

Honestly, you need to get with a GOOD, live singer ASAP, things will move MUCH quicker for you at your level. Good luck man.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2008 2:34:12

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Questions about accompanying por... (in reply to John O.)

John
I followed some lessons about acc. cante por bulerias here in Huelva and I had the same problems as you describe. I was told its a matter of time, listening and playing. (also called patience) The C7 to F is not that difficult it has some hints in the melody of the cante.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2008 6:44:46

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Questions about accompanying por... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Yeah with time I'm realizing it's getting better, it's more the reaction time between the ear and the hands I guess. I put on the palo seco bulerias at the end Angel Pastor's album and I got it by the second try.

You have to be good to get a good singer and you need a good singer to get good, which makes it kind of tough. There is a singer I work with who is in training - great voice but still needs to learn the more difficult palos.

I was in Sanlúcar last month and took lessons from Manuel Lopez Romero and we also spent a couple of hours with cantaora Caridad Vega. I wish I'd prepared for it better since there wasn't a lot I could do and it's not something you can learn in 2 hours if you've never done it before. It really sparked my interest in any case. Nothing sparks my interest like being shown things I can't do

Caridad was very cool and very patient. I promised her I'd be much better the next time she would see me

Manuel was a great teacher, he inspired me to finally start creating my own falsetas.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2008 7:48:55

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Questions about accompanying por... (in reply to John O.)

John, Thats the way to go.

I´m more ore less on the same place. I need to be better in order to play with someone good enough to progress. Its a bit frustrating, but with time. Right now I´m just taking classes on how they play Fandagos de Huelva here in Huelva. Its not enough to play the right chords and be in compás. One has to know the soniquete as well. I hope that within a not to long time I can start sitting in with the dance classes.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2008 7:12:47

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Questions about accompanying por... (in reply to John O.)

Hi John

I was in the Peña yesterday having a class on Fandangos de Huelva accompaniement. My teacher, Antonio. Told me that in order to be good you have to know all the different local variations from the different villages.

When he told me that there are 50, I felt a little bit empty inside.....

I guess its about patience or giving it up

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2008 7:17:28

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Questions about accompanying por... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Ouch

One at a time I guess.

About the whole fandango group, particularly Rondena for cante/baile: I asked before and noone answered about the structure. Maybe it's easier than I think. Is it just letra (4, sometimes 5 lines)/remate and repeat until done with intro and ending like the Fandango de Huelva?

I'll be accompanying a rondena workshop without knowing the choreography beforehand and I'm worried something will be required which I don't know about...

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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2008 8:13:53

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Questions about accompanying por... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

Hi John

I was in the Peña yesterday having a class on Fandangos de Huelva accompaniement. My teacher, Antonio. Told me that in order to be good you have to know all the different local variations from the different villages.

When he told me that there are 50, I felt a little bit empty inside.....

I guess its about patience or giving it up

Hey a lot of them are the same harmonically. But here is a good start for you...

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2008 22:05:29

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Questions about accompanying por... (in reply to John O.)

Hi Ricardo.

I have this one in my favorites. She sings very nice. Its quite impressive how popular fandagos are here in Huelva. If you go to a local show, easily 50% will be fandangos.

The flamenco scene is very much alive here, but its a lot of fandango. They play bulerias and tangos, but not as much as in other places in Andalucia.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2008 7:33:57