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Beginners flamencas at $350 versus $750: Am I getting that much more?
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ChiyoDad
Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area
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 Beginners flamencas at $350 versus $...
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As an absolute beginner, I'm currently getting by with with a La Patrie Presentation (classical guitar, cedar top, laminated rosewood sides/back, low action) to learn flamenco guitar. After having read through many of the older posts, it would seem that the Yamaha CG171SF is an acceptable and good-value choice for a beginner's flamenca at $350.
I was just wondering however what I might gain if I wait longer, save-up a little more and buy a flamenca at $750. The options (here in the US) would seem to be:
- A Cordoba 45FP
- A Cordoba 45M
- A flamenca de estudio from Paracho, Mexico (cedar top, cypress sides, all solid woods: probably by Francisco Navarro)
- A used Cordoba Pro-F (or maybe a used Cordoba Solista)
Is there enough of a difference between the CG171SF and any of these to warrant waiting-saving-and-buying? Or perhaps it would just be better to start with the CG171SF ... and then 4-5 years down the road buy something notably better at $2,000?
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Date Feb. 26 2008 10:03:26
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ChiyoDad
Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area
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RE: Beginners flamencas at $350 vers... (in reply to ChiyoDad)
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quote:
Doog
For now, from what I have read [I have not seen or played any entry level guitars for a long time], it seems that Yamaha gets pretty good reviews routinely.
Pgh_flamenco
I like the idea of buying a decent guitar like the CG171SF and researching the market for a period of time before investing a larger sum of money.
kovachian
If you have the patience, it might be worth your while to get a cheap flamenco for the time being and when the time, funds and dedication are just right, to just skip right past the intermediate flamencos and get the best guitar you can reasonably afford.
This is the direction that I'm leaning towards at this time. Much of what I have read on this forum, at Guitar Salon and at Delcamp.net suggest that the CG171SF has a flamenco sound and performs as well (if not even better) than many of the Spanish hecho a fabrica flamencas.
I was able to compare it to the Cordoba 30F (discontinued) and the Cordoba 32EF ($590) at a number of local stores. The Yamaha seemed to be the better-sounding guitar. It also seemed to be more cleanly constructed and detailed. Against the Cordobas I had tried in those two model lines, the CG171SF would be my choice. It also makes me think that I might only be disappointed with the overall value of the costlier Cordoba models.
Also, many of the big shops discount the CG171SF down to $300 during the holiday weekends (it seems to draw customers looking for a low-action nylon-string). That makes it an even more attractive value.
quote:
cathulu
If you don't know for sure about flamenco, then get the $350 Yamaha as long as it is reasonably playable, you probably will be able to flip it for not a big loss if it doesn't work out. But recognize that this isn't going to be a big step-up from your La Patrie (made in Canada I believe?) which I believe are very high value guitars for the money.
Yes. The La Patrie line is wonderful and the Presentation is an excellent classical guitar. (Hats off to our brothers and sisters in Canada!  )
The cedar soundboard brings a very nice open resonance but it is rather delicate. I've sometimes thought of just installing golpeadors on it and passing it off as a faux flamenca negra. For now, however, I would prefer to keep it as the classical guitar that it is.
quote:
HemeolaMan
francisco navarro builds good quality, consistent and good playing guitars.
buying from him will not be a disappointment. he is a big deal.
Navarro's flamencas de estudio are probably the biggest temptation and "question mark" in the $750-$800 range. I know two people who have bought his Grand Concert ($2000) and Special Grand Concert ($2800) classicals and they are very impressed with them. I'm speculating that his student guitars might be worth the extra money but I would need to drive south for about six hours to try one out.
Has anyone played his flamenca de estudio? Does Francisco actually build these himself or are they built by an understudy?
quote:
Doog
Good luck as you travel down the 'flamenco road'!
Many thanks! So far, it's been a very enjoyable start.
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Date Feb. 27 2008 3:00:04
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srshea
Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest
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RE: Beginners flamencas at $350 vers... (in reply to ChiyoDad)
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I used to have a Pro F, and can attest to the fact that it's a good guitar: very clean and solid in its construction, feels and plays good, esthetically appealing, and it actually sounds like a real flamenco. It's a bit heavy and they seem to come set up with a high action, but that's easily addressed. It is a better guitar than the Yamaha. Better enough to warrant the higher price tag? I dunno, depends. If you can get hold of a good one, get a good deal on it (I sold mine last month on ebay. Went for $540. The ones I've seen listed since then have been starting at around $650-800, and no one seems to be biting. Maybe you could try contacting one of those sellers and make an offer...), install a bone nut and get it set up right, and I think you'd have a nice solid guitar that would keep you satisfied well into the intermediate stage, more so than the Yamaha would.
Having said all that, sounds like you really cant go wrong with the Yamaha: cheap, everyone likes it, and a virtually guaranteed potential for resale at a price not too far below your initial investment when the time comes to trade up. And there's been one in the classified forum here lately, broken in and set up properly. Might still be there.
I wouldn't bother looking into the lesser Cordobas. They're no better than the Yamaha, but decidedly pricer.
Hope this is of some help, and doesn't just add to the uncertainty. Bottom line advice: go with the Yamaha, but first maybe poke around for a Pro F and see if you can score a good deal.
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Date Feb. 27 2008 9:52:51
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Pgh_flamenco
Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
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RE: Beginners flamencas at $350 vers... (in reply to cathulu)
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@kovachian: I recall reading an article about the violins produced in Cremona, Italy and how they won prizes each year. The judges used a double-blind system to eliminate any bias in the judging process—it didn’t make any difference—the winning violins were made in Cremona. I read about a student in England who put his violin down while waiting at a bus stop and ended up having his violin crushed by the bus. After it was broken open he realized it was a Stradivarius worth about 700K. He couldn’t tell when he played the thing—it didn’t sound any different than the other student violins he was accustomed to hearing?
@ cathulu: I made a 25 ft. cable for my electric guitar using the best Belden cable (8410) that I could get from a local electronics store. It eliminated all of the RF noise that my other cable caused and only cost $12. This was an old fashioned radio/electronics store and they also sold a chemical in a spray can that enabled manufacturers to quickly and easily remove the writing on the cable.
quote:
Seems like a few thousand between them does not make much of a difference in sound at least on my klipsh speakers (which are pretty decent). Frankly the prices are nuts.
I think it’s different to play a guitar as opposed to only hearing it. The tone can have a lot to do with a player’s technique, too. Strings affect the tone as does a coating of SuperGlue on the nails. This is all trial and error with any specific instrument. I think so many of these instruments are not that different in tone and they can only be so loud. Also, a loud guitar might not sound as good as one that is lower in volume. Only one guitar stood out for me on Zavaleta's. What did you think of the 2005 Santos Bayon Concert Flamenco Guitar—it struck me as extraordinary!
quote:
I think someone described the business plan as I build 10 guitars a year, each costs me $1000 and I am worth $100,000 per year so I will charge $11,000 each. This artisan model can get stretched to the ludicrous point very quickly especially with the middle men marking them up again.
A lot of luthiers sell directly to the public so any middle man markup comes when an instrument is being sold as used. $3,500 to $4,000 is about right for an established luthier like Anders, the famous ones (like Devoe and Aaron Green) sell their guitars for around $6,000 to $7,500 new. Anders discussed the value of the materials to be worth around $800. Of course you can pay $1,000 for a custom rosette from Connor or the same for a set of fancy Italian tuners. Conde’s are very expensive and some aren’t even that good according to people on the Foro.
quote:
A bad one from a good builder can sound worse than a good one from an unknown builder.
A builder’s first guitar (Glenn Cannin) was good enough for Jason McGuire to trade his 1961 Ramirez. But, I agree some copies of a certain model are always better than other copies. It’s nice to try before you buy.
quote:
It reminds me of guys chasing the elusive perfect sound in high fidelity
You’ll see guys selling a collection of rare and expensive guitars in search of a certain model on the Foro. I agree with you.
quote:
Just what is that price point for a great flamenco guitar? I'd like to know! $1500? Weren't flamenco guitars built cheaply for the gypsies who have no money? Are not some of these cheap guitars worth a lot of money? And sound great?
If you buy used you can save a lot of money—between $1,500 to $2,000 is possible for a luthier guitar in used condition. It might even be repaired. A flamenco guitar was inferior to a classical in materials and workmanship years ago. Times have changed!
I’m going to put together some useful and simple information on flamenco guitars--hopefully tomorrow--on this thread to help orient people. It won’t be exhaustive, but I think people will find it useful…
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Date Feb. 27 2008 18:20:14
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ChiyoDad
Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area
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RE: Beginners flamencas at $350 vers... (in reply to ChiyoDad)
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quote:
Rain
Go With the Yamaha, Ive compared that guitar with every guitar you listed and trust me on this go with the YAMAHA
srshea
I wouldn't bother looking into the lesser Cordobas. They're no better than the Yamaha, but decidedly pricer.
I wonder how other manufacturers feel when they read how folks feel about the Yamaha?
quote:
srshea
I used to have a Pro F, and can attest to the fact that it's a good guitar: ...
Many thanks for this information. The Pro F and the Solista got some nods in another forum so I'd like to consider them. Both have solid cypress backs/sides which I would assume might provide a better and louder sound response if the guitar was built well. I'll inquire with the sellers on eBay, but I'm not that optimistic.
I've read more mixed reviews about the Lucida 797 (mentioned by Pgh_flamenco in an earlier post) and it's since been discontinued. I don't know what a fair price would be for a used one. Alhambras are rare birds on eBay and I wouldn't know a fair price on used ones either. Alhambras tend to receive more praise, though.
Thankfully, I'm not in a rush and nothing in my upcoming student's repertoire yet requires a golpe - so my La Patrie Presentation is still safe.
quote:
srshea
Having said all that, sounds like you really cant go wrong with the Yamaha: cheap, everyone likes it, and a virtually guaranteed potential for resale at a price not too far below your initial investment when the time comes to trade up. And there's been one in the classified forum here lately, broken in and set up properly.
Yes. That's Jeff's CG171SF which he's offering at $250 plus shipping. It'd be a great deal if I was in his area and I could try it out.
In the San Francisco Bay Area, the CG171SF regularly goes on sale for $299. It probably would work better for me to stick with a local purchase if I go with the Yamaha.
quote:
cathulu
Just what is that price point for a great flamenco guitar? I'd like to know! $1500? Weren't flamenco guitars built cheaply for the gypsies who have no money? Are not some of these cheap guitars worth a lot of money? And sound great?
Ah, it looks like we’re moving into a bit of a different discussion here. But no matter. It should still be fun!
William Cumpiano, who for some folks literally wrote THE book on how to build acoustic guitars, wrote this in one of his newsletters when asked to explain the difference between classic guitars and flamenco guitars:
Guitars are essentially cultural artifacts, and flamenco guitars are no exception. The major differences between Flamenco, Spanish and Classical guitars are actually nothing more than... culture and class differences.
What are now called flamenco guitars were once just Spanish guitars, like all the other guitars made in Southern Spain for centuries. Unlike vihuelas, guitars were the commoner's instrument and none were more common than those made for the Roma, the outcast Spanish community that created Flamenco music.
Instead of being made with expensive imported woods, they were made from a tree that grew like weeds in Spain: Spanish Cypress. Time was, I'm told, you could go to the countryside and throw a rock in any direction and you'd have a good chance of hitting a Cypress tree. The low action may be just a way to get the strings to rattle percussively or, perhaps more likely, the rattling percussive sound is actually a result of the instruments' traditionally rustic and slap-dash construction.
So flamenco guitars were originally just Spanish guitars made as cheaply as local artisans knew how. The higher-income players could afford maple, rosewood or mahogany guitars, and could afford mechanical tuners instead of whittled-out wooden pegs. And rattle-free sound.
quote:
Pgh_flamenco
I recall reading an article about the violins produced in Cremona, Italy and how they won prizes each year. The judges used a double-blind system to eliminate any bias in the judging process—it didn’t make any difference—the winning violins were made in Cremona.
Was that Cremona, Italy, or Kremona, Bulgaria? I know that there’s a thriving violin industry in Kremona, Bulgaria. It would certainly give the story added punch if it were the latter.
quote:
Pgh_flamenco
I’m going to put together some useful and simple information on flamenco guitars--hopefully tomorrow--on this thread to help orient people. It won’t be exhaustive, but I think people will find it useful…
I’ll be looking forward to it!
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Date Feb. 28 2008 2:00:03
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n85ae
Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
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RE: Beginners flamencas at $350 vers... (in reply to ChiyoDad)
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Well, definetly spruce top guitars improve in sound after a bit of playing, and
just keep sounding better with age. I know there was a recent thread disputing
that, but nevertheless I believe it.
My Negra, always sound dull for about 10-15 minutes, and then it completely
changes character. It was worse when new, now after more than a year it
sounds crisper all the time.
I read an article by RE Brune, where he said a big difference between guitars
made in Spain, and guitars made outside of Spain had a lot to do with tuning
of the guitar during and after assembly. That a lot of the guitars made in
Spain showed signs of having been tuned through the soundhole (i.e. brace
whittled, etc.). He said that the actual guitar assembly is easy to replicate,
the sound due to this tuning was not easy to replicate and he said that
was why guitars made in Spain tended to sound better than a lot of others.
Both of my Pedro De Miguel's have had the braces carved, which is obvious
looking around inside with a mirror and a flashlight. Clearly they were well
made and then some final adjustments were made after the soundbox was
glued shut.
If you look in a Yamaha, the bracing is pretty much the same, as the better
guitars just the braces are plain old rectangular strips glued in place, no
tapering, etc. However it has the same bracing pattern as the better guitars.
Actually I had debated if the Yamaha I have doesn't sell, cutting it open
and doing some surgey to see how much better (or worse) it could be made
with some cleanup of this stuff. :)
Regards,
Jeff
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Date Feb. 28 2008 4:30:50
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Pgh_flamenco
Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
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RE: Beginners flamencas at $350 vers... (in reply to ChiyoDad)
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Some things to look for in a flamenco guitar:
String height setup:
String height--above 12th fret: 2.8– 3.1 mm
String height--soundboard at the bridge: 7.5 - 8mm (+/- 1mm)
String height--soundboard at the sound hole: 8 – 8.5mm (+/- 1mm)
If the string height is too low it can lower volume and cause string buzz, if too high it can lower volume and affect playability. There was a recent thread about the dome of the sound board. As long as you can setup your guitar as described above you should be fine. The dome allows the wood to expand and contract without cracking.
Saddle/Nut Widths and Materials:
Wide nuts and saddles are popular and these numbers are basically standard on classical and flamenco guitars these days:
Saddle: 58 mm
Nut: 52 mm
Bone is popular on high end guitars. I spoke to a local luthier about this and he told me uniform density is an issue with bone. He recommended using Tusq for saddles and nuts. It’s hard, uniformly dense, easy to shape by sanding and increases loudness. The saddle affects the loudness of all notes played on the guitar; the nut mostly affects open notes. If interested you can call Graph Tech about Tusq at 1-800-388-7011. A saddle will cost about $11.00 plus $3.00 shipping, a nut costs about $11.00, too. Buy both together and it is still only $3.00 for shipping.
Tuners:
Some flamenco guitars still come with traditional friction pegs which are hard to use. Pegs have a 1:1 turning ratio. Many people unaccustomed to friction pegs end up selling the guitar. Mechanical tuners are the most popular because they are easy to use. The tuners have anywhere from a 12:1 to 17:1 gear reduction. If you have an instrument you like with friction pegs you can switch to mechanical tuners (a skilled luthier should do the work) or switch to planetary pegs. Planetary pegs have a planetary gear system enclosed in a traditional looking but--larger diameter—peg.
Finish:
Most flamenco guitars come with a lacquer finish which is hard and limits the expansion of the sound board. French polish (also called gomalacha) is soft and does not have the same limiting affect on the sound board and tone of the instrument. Some high end guitars come with lacquer but very few low end instruments have French polish. FP is expensive when offered as an option and takes additional care. A zipper or abrasive fabric (even adjusting a capo can scrape it off) can cut right into it. It is also sensitive to heat. If left in a black guitar case in the sun it might haze over. It can be touched up or re-applied more easily than lacquer or other hard finishes. Some guitars have a lacquer or nitrocellulose finish on everything but the sound board which can have FP. This seems to be a practical alternative. I’d like to know what our luthiers think about this finish option.
Wood:This covers the most popular woods and the most important parts of the guitar made from wood.
Sound board: Spruce or Cedar. Both are hardwoods and Spruce is the most common.
Wood Grade: Spruce comes in a variety of grades—I’ve seen AAA, AAAA and AAAAA listed on eBay and websites.
Both Spruce and Cedar are hardwoods and can be cut thin enough to make a great sound board. Spruce is white or lighter in color than Cedar. Cedar has a caramel color. Hardwoods grow with a tighter grain and usually in higher altitudes. You’ll hear of Alaskan, Canadian and German hardwoods a lot in advertisements. Engelmann Spruce comes up most frequently. Also, Spruce is a carry-over from classical guitar construction as are mechanical tuners.
Back and sides: Cypress is popular and common (It smells great.). Cedar would be good, too. Solid Sycamore is cheap stuff and not respected by luthiers. Both Cypress and Cedar are fine for blancas. Negras are made with Rosewood, Paloescrito (Mexican Rosewood), etc. Maple can make for a really bright sounding blanca, too. It’s not used very often, but it sounds great to my ears.
Solid tone woods are considered better than laminates and demand a higher price even on re-sale. A laminate made of Nomex—it’s similar to Kevlar—is used as a soundboard for some very expensive flamenco guitars. The Nomex is sandwiched between two pieces of wood—if the wood cracks the top cannot be repaired—it has to be replaced.
Rosette, Label and Purfling:
The rosette and label can be a good way to identify a guitar and weed out fakes. Many websites like those included below as well as manufacturer websites can be a big help here. eBay has its share of fraudulent offers, so be careful. Some expensive guitars have fancy rosettes, but many do not. Flamenco guitars are supposed to be basic. The purfling (binding) tends to be plain as does the laminate on the headstock. There’s usually a piece of binding between where the two sides come together on the lower bout. This saves the luthier the trouble of matching the grain where the sides meet. I’ve seen this transverse purfling on some classicals but mostly on flamenco guitars. The CG171SF’s purfling is a bit too fancy for a flamenco and fancier than most high end flamencos which tend to follow tradition.
Some Resources:
http://www.lafalseta.com/
http://www.zavaletas-guitarras.com/mirror/inventoryf.htm
http://www.alhambrausa.com/
http://lessonsinlutherie.com/PlanetaryPegs.html
http://mysite.verizon.net/nostberg/
http://www.eliassonguitars.com/
http://www.connorguitars.com/links_tips/rosettes.html rosette construction
http://www.guitarsalon.com/
http://www.guitarrasramirez.com/english/etiquetasEn.html
http://www.pegheds.com/features.htm
https://www.danzeffguitars.com/showitem.cfm?id=182&menu=flamenco&type=guitars
http://www.classicguitar.com/flamenco.html
Light Build Flamenco Guitars and Fan Pattern/Bracing System:
After 150 years of development a flamenco guitar is no longer the same as a classical. The better flamenco guitars are lightly built (or “light builds”) and can weigh less than three pounds. The fan pattern and bracing systems used in flamenco guitars are unique and affect tone and decrease sustain. Flamenco guitars have the “pinging, glassy” sound made by striking a note near the bridge on a classical. This sound on a flamenco guitar can be made even close to the sound hole, whereas a classical becomes much deeper and darker starting about an inch away from the bridge. The stronger your attack on a flamenco the more pronounced this difference in tone becomes. Less sustain (rapid decay) is important for the percussive effects required for dance accompaniment. Flamenco guitars with more sustain and even spatial effects like reverb are popular for solo pieces. Some guitars have metallic sounding basses--strings are a big factor here and nail hardener (SuperGlue) can positively affect tone, too. A great guitar is responsive to the players touch and has even loudness between treble and bass strings. Because of the fan pattern you cannot turn a classical guitar into a flamenco guitar.
Common Flamenco Guitar Designs for Luthiers:
The two designs I keep coming across are:
1951 Marcelo Barbero--Sabicas used this on Flamenco Puro
1933 Santos Hernandez.
Used Instruments and Cracks:
If you buy a used—or even new--instrument keep this in mind: the switch from hot/dry climate to cool/humid climate is safer for the instrument than the reverse. Going from a cool/humid climate to a hot/dry climate is more likely to lead to cracking of the wood. I doubt this is an issue for the CG171SF. A used instrument might be “played in” by the previous owner and unlike a new instrument if it hasn’t already cracked it probably won’t once you have.
Repairs:
Unlike violinists, guitarists don’t like repaired instruments. This may or may not affect a guitar’s value (On eBay it really seems to hurt the value of a guitar.). Repairs can be made with cleats (and no glue) or with glue. I’ve read that cleats alone are better.
Up and coming luthiers…
I know of a few lesser known luthiers who make great guitars, but I don’t want to compete with everyone here for a good deal so…sorry.
Resale Value:
Everyone knows how this works. Most guitars lose their value as quickly as cars. If you get a good deal on a used instrument you will lose less money if you ever sell it. You might even make money. I’m glad I bought the 7FC used, but would not pay $1,000 or more for it. Knowing what I know now I would be content with the CG171SF until I saved up for a high end instrument. I played several at Guitar Center and one was outstanding, the rest were not very impressive. $300 USD is a good deal for a new CG171SF; used ones go for about $275 on average—everyone knows their value and it’s a good price point so rarely do they go below this price used and this $275 includes shipping.
If it wasn’t so difficult to tune the sound board and fan pattern of a guitar I would collect the tools and try to build one. Alhambra is a great company and offers excellent customer support. They sell more guitars in Spain than any other manufacturer. The 7FC is a good instrument, but most of their other guitars are souvenirs for tourists. Their luthier guitars are overpriced. The Lucida Picado 797 can be had used for between $450 to $600—this would be a good deal. I actually saw a fake 797 on eBay a few months ago. The Prudencio Saez Model 22 is the same guitar as the Picado 797 (the 797 is the wholesale version of the Model 22).
BTW the violins I mentioned were built in Cremona, Italy.
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Date Feb. 28 2008 10:07:36
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veet
Posts: 231
Joined: Nov. 29 2004
From: L.A.
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RE: Beginners flamencas at $350 vers... (in reply to ChiyoDad)
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Yamaha is fine for starters, but I've never found a Cordoba that was any good. Re. Paracho, ten cuidado. Some are good, some awful. A guitar must be played, never buy a pig in a poke.
My first nylon-string guitar was a $120 pawnshop special with a cracked bout. I learned a lot on it, then gave it to el Carbonero in Jerez, who passed it on to one of his kid students who couldn't afford an instrument. While in Spain, I bought a decent Bernal for $1200 after spending a day playing every guitar in Bernal's workshop.
The working range on prices IMO is $350 entry level, then intermediate at over $1000, then upwards from there. I can discern no improvement between a $350 and $750 guitar. Of course, every single guitar is different. Most pawnshop guitars are crap, but here and there will be a gem. Nice thing about Yamahas is consistency.
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Date Feb. 28 2008 10:47:16
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Pgh_flamenco
Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
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RE: Beginners flamencas at $350 vers... (in reply to jshelton5040)
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quote:
Do you see the nonsequitur in the above statement? Raise or lower the action has the same effect of diminishing volume. This is simply not true.
Actually, no I don’t. This was a statement made by one of the luthiers on the foro and it made sense to me.
quote:
You forgot to mention ivory which is still used by some of us.
I was not trying to include every material currently in use, only the most common—the materials a person looking for a guitar in a certain price range is likely to consider buying. How many used guitars in the $2,000 price range have ivory nuts and saddles? You tell me. Hopefully you’re getting your ivory from a legitimate source, but that’s another story.
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This is pure nonsense. Properly installed pegs are easy to use.
This comes from several different foro posts. A guy was selling a guitar recently that Anders made because he couldn’t get used to the pegs. I’d like to believe you, but there is a reason a few different companies exist that make and sell geared tuners that look like pegs and can easily be used to upgrade a guitar from friction pegs. It must be common for people to have problems with pegs, because for some reason people consistently comment on what a hassle pegs are. If you want to set them all straight post a tutorial on how to use and maintain pegs. I’d definitely read it.
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French polish is shellac which is very hard and brittle.
This comes from a luthier on the foro who warns of everything I described. It’s not an issue to me because I am determined to get a guitar with FP. Do you like the idea of FP on the soundboard and lacquer or nitrocellulose on the rest of the guitar? Do you have any experience with this sort of combination or do you think a guitar like this would still sound as good?
quote:
Both spruce and cedar are softwoods.
OK, does that discredit everything else in the post?
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There is no standard method for grading tonewoods. Grading methods vary from one vendor to another.
It doesn’t surprise me but you will see statements about wood grades using this type of rating system even on the websites of respected luthiers and guitar manufacturers.
quote:
Ask Victor Monge or Manolo Sanlucar about playing flamenco on a classic guitar, not to mention Mario Escudero who played a classic Hauser.
I’m aware of what they said about this. You can say what you like, but I think most people know there are differences…and why bother to offer separate classical and flamenco models on your own site?
I didn’t expect a luthier to post anything useful on guitars in this price range so I offered the information I had. If the luthiers were even willing to respond to the questions people have about less expensive guitars I would not have even bothered to post here. Will you even answer my question about FP/lacquer in this post?
@n85ae quote:
If you have more, then you talk to a Luthier
Would you take a luthier’s word on a $2,000+ purchase—probably someone you’ve never met—without doing any research? I wouldn’t.
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Date Feb. 28 2008 13:25:00
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