foro chord book

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foro chord book

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HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

foro chord book

hey guys, i'm working on enharmonically "re-alphabetizing" the foro chord chart file.

however, instead of using gp5 i was hoping some of you knew of a good program i could use to generate fingerboard charts/chord charts that doesnt require tab. and that i can also export as a pdf or arrange on a page

if any of you know i'd love to hear about it

i already have all of the chords in a organized, i jst need to get them in a reall readable, organized format

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2008 10:48:30

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: foro chord book (in reply to HemeolaMan)

I just looked into finale. it's possible to make nice chord charts in it. the way you do it isn't very intuitive and involves having invisible staff, but you can get things to look any way you like.. one shortcoming seems to be that there is no way to assign left hand fingerings to the fretboard diagrams.

I've tried finding other programs that do this but haven't found anything.. except finale and gp5. i prefer finale over gp5 for this because it's more flexible, you can move and reorganize/resize stuff any way you like.

Have you named all the chords? I could help out with the finale part if the material is ready to be filled in.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2008 19:48:06

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: foro chord book (in reply to mrMagenta)

i can send you a gp5 with all the chords in a named out, theres a link in my signature, send me an email and i'll reply with it

thanks man!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2008 20:15:10

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: foro chord book (in reply to HemeolaMan)

just e-mailed you.

ok, i found that finale has left hand fingerings. question is. do we want left hand fingerings? i could do the formatting and stuff but i don't think i'm a good authority on making up good left hand fingerings for all the odd chords in the chart.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2008 21:52:49

Adam

Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON

RE: foro chord book (in reply to HemeolaMan)

hemeola, you can e-mail me the gp5 file (my e-mail's in my facebook profile) and i'll see what i can do with sibelius!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2008 7:00:05

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: foro chord book (in reply to HemeolaMan)

thanks guys, i'll send you both the a chords section

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2008 9:01:38

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: foro chord book (in reply to HemeolaMan)

i've done the a chords, just going to fix a few font things, do you have the B ready?. i've got the hang of this finale stuff, bit of a hassle really.. wonder if sibelius is as fidgety. i've got a question on chord naming conventions. is A#add11+/A perfectly synonymous to A#+11/A? and which would be preferable?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2008 1:13:23

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: foro chord book (in reply to mrMagenta)

nearly, i would just use the shortest one lol

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2008 5:49:12

Ricardo

Posts: 14887
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: foro chord book (in reply to HemeolaMan)

quote:

hey guys, i'm working on enharmonically "re-alphabetizing" the foro chord chart file.

What do you mean exactly? Can you give some examples of what you are doing?

quote:

A#add11+/A perfectly synonymous to A#+11/A? and which would be preferable?

No. Firstly, why do you want to give a "proper" theoretical name to the chords, since interms of flamenco they are not necessarily functioning that way??? And second, make sure you understand the proper way to spell chords theoretically. You would not have an "A#" chord OVER an "A natural" bass note!

It is either Bb/A or A#/Gx. Make sense? And the spelling depends on the key signature the song is in.

The idea I had for the chord chart was to show the special and common voicing that are used in FLAMENCO as opposed to your typcial folk/rock/jazz type chord charts. THat is why the tabs are important. The way a jazz guy reads "Bb(#11)/A" is different then the way a flamenco player might voice the chord. Also the purpose for voicing a certain way is important, where as jazz voicing are designed for "chart readers" not "aire". Hope you get what I mean.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2008 6:30:46

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: foro chord book (in reply to Ricardo)

..... its now going to be in fingering charts ricardo. organized, isntead of whatever chord came first on the gp5 file, i thought maybe we should go a major, am7 a7 am etc.

pm me your email and i'll send the first pdf to you. i gaurantee you'll like it

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2008 8:59:37

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: foro chord book (in reply to HemeolaMan)

A sharp with A in the bass, i see why that's wrong now that you pointed it out. I passed me by unnoticed because it was the suggested name by GP5, figures... I have a basic understanding of naming chords but frankly i'm confused over many cases.. and the voicings aren't really straight forward here.

so I agree with your point, but I would still like to call them something. the actual voicing will be in the diagram.. but you'd like to refer to the chord by a name of some sort, perhaps reflecting their function in flamenco.

I'm really only doing the graphics, so help me out if you can with naming the chords, i uploaded the pdf in the tab section. i would want to learn in the process. and i'm curious about what differs add11 from +11. and how about add9- from -9. the books i have fail me here.. and even the old google is giving me a hard time.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2008 9:06:18

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: foro chord book (in reply to mrMagenta)

+ is augmented add 9 means add a 9, so a+9 means a augmented 9

as for that chord, since it was put in the section called a chords by ricardo himself lol i think we should keep it there and give it whatever name seems the most a-ish lol

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2008 9:19:08

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: foro chord book (in reply to HemeolaMan)

thanks hemeola, that's what i was guessing, that add keeps pure intervals pure while + augments them. it's a bit confusing that it is used for intervals that are minor/major too. like add9, now that would be the same formula as +9 right?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2008 9:40:26

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: foro chord book (in reply to mrMagenta)

im not entirely sure what you are asking lol. + always augments it never means add, and viio always means diminished lol. its hard to augment a minor third.. because by raising a minor third you havent augmented it... if thats what you mean.

however, heres a thought for you, b# and Cb can be thought of as an aug or dim unison (depending on how you spell it).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2008 18:20:35

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: foro chord book (in reply to HemeolaMan)

i guess the confusion is: add always adds a degree from the chord-scale. does + always augment it one up from the chord scale? or is the + not relative at all to the chord scale, only to the interval type. that is +9 is always major 9 never 9##?

uh, anyway. i'm thinking the + raised relative to the chord scale is the most sensible. which would mean:

Cadd9 C,E,G,D

C+9 C,E,G,Bb,D#

Cadd9+ C,E,G,D#

am i totally lost here?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2008 21:15:50

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: foro chord book (in reply to HemeolaMan)

If you and the minor 7th like you have here C E G Bb D#
you should spell it C7 the D# makes it a #9 so its writen C7#9

if you have a natural 9th its C9 (c,e,g,Bb,d) if you have no 7 or if its a major 7 its
Cmaj9 ( c e g b d) or Cadd9 (C e g d)

by the way the + isnt used very often, # and b is more comon signs
if you wirite C+ its a C with a sharp 5 (G#) C E G# if its C E G# Bb you write C7#5

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2008 22:49:34

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: foro chord book (in reply to HemeolaMan)

that makes sense. thanks again for setting things straight. i think i'll scrap the + - naming and use # and b from now on

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 5 2008 1:54:47

Estevan

Posts: 1937
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: foro chord book (in reply to Ricardo)

I totally agree with Ricardo's comments above - Olé to all that!

Why burden the chords with inappropriate and potentially confusing names? The so-called added notes or augmented intervals often come about simply because there are open strings that are there and they sound good, - or even fingered notes that are convenient to grab, and sound good, not because they are really 'extensions of a sequence of thirds' - that's not the way they work in flamenco.

Can you find a useful way to present the tabs without individually naming everything?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 5 2008 5:27:04

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: foro chord book (in reply to HemeolaMan)

why not just call it A or A7 if i play lets say solea por medio i know what A im using
if its alegrias i know im playing a regular A major etc

maybe use a system based on palos and its trad keys wait to put and name on it untill its has to be named

just an idea

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This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 5 2008 5:45:28

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: foro chord book (in reply to HemeolaMan)

yeah, in these last posts i was just talking about naming in general, not necessarily for the flamenco list.

with the all chords list i'm open for anything really. but take a look at the pdf in the tabs section and post there directly, that way you can make references etc. i've numbered the chords so you can point to them easily.. as it is, they are still named theoretically, but not ultra strict.

i don't know how they could be named according to their use/function in flamenco/palos. it would be really interesting to categorize them after flamenco funcion, but i can't do that without help, i don't have that level of experience.

anyway. this is a work in progress. i need to get the rest of the chords down, and like ricardo says: more chords please! we can sort them/correct them any way we like, perhaps show alternative fingerings etc.. but let's make a nice collection, my aim is to keep the list in a format that makes additions and changes easy :-)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 5 2008 6:43:09

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: foro chord book (in reply to mrMagenta)

i think maybe grouping them like Amajor (7) chords, A7 chords Am chords would work best, that way we'd have both their names individually and their functions

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 5 2008 7:10:08

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: foro chord book (in reply to HemeolaMan)

sounds good. some odd chords are a bit tricky to categorize within these three, but i can give it a shot and get back to you with the ones i don't know where to place..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 5 2008 9:35:49

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: foro chord book (in reply to mrMagenta)

for example a b7b5 would go in the diminished category, just for general usage, not necessarily because it is

a M7b5 would be a substitution i think, or a linear chord that would lead to another one. that kind is hard fro me to categorize and depends largely on the piece its in

I was just finishing b and bflat when gp5 ha a fatal error and scrapped my work lol

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 5 2008 10:07:55

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: foro chord book (in reply to HemeolaMan)

aaaaargh! sorry to hear about that. i've been there soo many times.. some programs do autosaves. i'm not sure if gp5 does that.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 5 2008 10:13:26

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: foro chord book (in reply to mrMagenta)

lolz, we are the only two on this thread, I'm going to pose a question to ricardo soon, unless something exciting happens! lol

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 5 2008 10:26:18

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: foro chord book (in reply to HemeolaMan)

Start talking about Juan Martin and you´ll see it´ll be like flies around ****

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This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 5 2008 19:59:03

Adam

Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON

RE: foro chord book (in reply to HemeolaMan)

RABBLE RABBLE JUAN MARTIN NOT FLAMENCO ACTUALLY BRITISH!!!! BENISE!!!!!!

OK, now I think I've contributed.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2008 2:34:57

Adam

Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON

RE: foro chord book (in reply to HemeolaMan)

Also, I'm not sure how useful it would be to organize the chords within each root (i.e., AM vs. Am vs. A7 etc.). It would be nice - say these chords go in place of an A major - but I'd imagine too many chords would have multiple uses. It might be nice to just notate by each chord what it can be used as, and of course for the major ones actually label them "Am", "A7", etc.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2008 2:38:44

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: foro chord book (in reply to HemeolaMan)

lol benise!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2008 3:40:34

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: foro chord book (in reply to HemeolaMan)

at this point there are a hundred different ways to organize the chords. ultimately its up to anybody who contributes, I'm not picky

I'll probably make a jpeg of them and then cut/paste them on a page in an orderly way to look visually appealing.

however if you have a suggestion (anyone at all here lol) could you show us graphically even if its a text file?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2008 5:46:23