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Todds Alegria
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Jon Boyes
Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
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 RE: Todds Alegria (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria
Well, it sounds very artificial to me. It doesn't work with my concept of how a guitar, and specifically flamenco guitar should sound. I wouldn't mistake the MIDI for live musicians, and the picado runs in general sound too pure in nature--the result of the pick. .. Or do you think it is an acceptable sound for an album?
With respect Mike, I think you are overestimating the amount that live musicians are used in modern studios, and I think that your prior knowledge of Todd - his technique and recording techniques (and attitude?) - influence your views. Are you really saying that the bass sounds artifical? If so, how? I will bet that if Todd had said he got one of his colleagues in to play those bass lines you wouldn't have batted an eyelid.
If you read the industry press you will see just how much studios are reliant on software these days. Using midi to trigger synths and samplers is not merely a 'home-recording' thing, it is part and parcel of how it is done in a professional studio environment. I have a Tomatito album sitting on my desk with a string section on one number that sounds a hell of a lot less realistic than Todds bass! Todds percussion was sampled directly from a commercial flamenco Alegria recording, so if you think that sounds artificial, blame the original recording.
As far as his picado tech goes, I've heard some players play very cleanly, and the more I hear him the more the 'he's playing with a pick' fades into the background. Did you hear that little clip that Florian posted of the National ballet guy? Sounded pretty clean to me.
One thing I will agree with you is that he uses a lot of compression, but then so do most studios these days, it seems to be a fashion. Todd's mix is no worse than some of the big names in this department. There's a thread over on FT right now about the amount of compression on Amigos latest recording, for example.
Sorry to give you a hard time Mike, but I think there are huge misconceptions about midi and what it represents.
Jon
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Date Apr. 1 2004 8:45:45
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: Todds Alegria (in reply to Billyboy)
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quote:
the guy must be super human.
Yes, he just doesn't sleep. Just plays guitar all the time. 
On the compression issue, the link Jon mentioned (thanks Jon...great link!) is geared mainly at producing good quality recordings.
However compression can also be used for effects too.
In the mid 50's when kids would listen to rock 'n roll on Juke boxes, the record producers wanted to try to make their records come out louder than the oppositions.
This involved making the groove bigger and using compression to drastically limit the dynamic range (especially on the low frequency bass and drum sounds) so the volume could be pumped up to max.
Inadvertently, they found that this produced a more "exciting" sound which fans liked.
Since then, it's been used extensively in pop music.
(Remember Phil Spector's "Wall of Sound"...layer upon layer of sounds all tightly compressed.)
This is why an electric guitar will sound more exciting played through a 30w valve amp with all the volume controls full up rather than a 300w amp with the volume only quarter set.
The overdriven amp compresses then limits and if overdriven enough will distort producing "fuzz", the effect much used by the rock bands towards the end of the '60s.
(Though they eventually produced a box to do this to the signal before going into the amp, which is a much safer method LOL!)
Back to Flamenco....compression used here can produce a more punchy sound, but has to be used with care or the operation of the compressor will be audible.
A good example of this is Paco Peña's first album "The Incredible Paco Peña", (late '60s), where you can audibly hear the "breathing" (level variation) effect of the compression, but it does make the Bulerias, Tientos and Fandangos tracks sound really exciting.
cheers
Ron
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Date Apr. 1 2004 12:26:42
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Patrick
Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon
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RE: Todds Alegria (in reply to Billyboy)
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quote:
What is compresion and what does it sound llike on a CD
Dave,
Ron said it quite well. Compression can be a very useful tool, but it’s a bit like reverb; if a little is good, more must be better. It can be overdone very easily.
Compression is actually the result of using a compressor. Compressors are available in hardware and software versions. The acoustic guitar is very difficult to record properly. The flamenco guitar compounds the problem with its high dynamics. Dynamics as far as we are concerned can be described as very high volume levels and very low volume levels. As a rule, a classical guitar would be described as having lower dynamics than the flamenco, and thus easier to record.
Without the use of compression, flamenco recordings would result in passages that are too low in volume ranging to blowing your speakers out. Compression, literally, levels out the high and low volume parts.
The mechanics of this is quite involved, but here are the basics. A compressor simply reduces the level (volume) of the “high volume passages” and raises the level of the “low volume passages”. As you can see, if compression is overdone, you can literally remove al the dynamics from a recording. What results is a very flat, boring, monotone recording. The other problem if overdone is raising the noise level in the low volume sections. You hear this a lot in older recordings that have been re-mastered to CD’s.
As Jon said, go to the “Recording Advice” section and download the article Tom and I did. We recorded some examples of compression.
Pat
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Date Apr. 1 2004 17:44:55
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Todds Alegria (in reply to Jon Boyes)
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Jon,
It may very well be true that my prior knowledge of Todd makes it very hard for me to appreciate his output. That being said, I don't like the "clean sound" of picado, if that means sounding like it's using a pick! I do like very much how Paco sounds, though... there's something very different there, I have to say. And maybe I couldn't tell if he were using a live bassist or MIDI, maybe it's just the sound of fretless bass that I hate. Although Todd admitted on the "other forum" that there's no dynamics on the piece, which is something that happens when you are using a computer and not a real musician. I have Sarah Brightman's album (don't ask), and the keyboards on it sound really good. The keyboards on the movie "Gladiator" sound really good, too.
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Date Apr. 1 2004 18:32:18
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