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Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pickup-System have a different sound than without pickup?   You are logged in as Guest
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Ex

 

Posts: 15
Joined: May 23 2006
 

Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pickup-S... 
Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pickup-System have a different sound than a guitar without a Pickup-System? I mean, is the guitar with pickup-system constructed diffently, so that the construction does effect the the sound of the guitar (i mean when not amplified).
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2007 23:15:53
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Ex) 
YES
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2007 11:37:19
 
TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Ex) 
quote:

Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pickup-System have a different sound than a guitar without a Pickup-System? I mean, is the guitar with pickup-system constructed diffently, so that the construction does effect the the sound of the guitar (i mean when not amplified).


They are not really constructed differently but once plugged in they do tend to have a different sound. It also depends on the guitar. Most guys that I know who play guitars with acoustics have had the acoustics installed in the guitar as opposed to buying a guitar with acoustics installed like the Cordoba Gipsy Kings model for example.

Unplugged they sound the same but take on something different once plugged in. A few of the ones I've heard don't sound as nice plugged in. I guess it also depends on how much mic and EQ you use.

I've yet to find an acoustic that comes with the electronics I like. I would prefer to have the electronics installed in a guitar I like instead.

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Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2007 13:11:29
 
Serafino

 

Posts: 6
Joined: Feb. 18 2007
 

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Ex) 
What electronics do you prefer?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2007 13:26:28
 
TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Serafino) 
I'm not a big fan of electric acoustics. If I were going to have something installed I'd choose a B-Band because it needs less wood cut out. However, I don't gig professionally. If I did, I might find I need an EQ and more control over the sound so I may go with a Fishman Prefix problend.

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Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2007 15:23:57
 
TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to TANúñez) 
Sorry Serafino. I don't know if your question was directed for me or for Ex.

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Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2007 15:25:01
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14806
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From: Washington DC

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Ex) 
Acoustically NO. But it is rare to find a guitar that sounds good to begin with that has a pick up installed. Unfortunately, installing a pick up to a fine instrument "devalues" it on the market. The professional player thinking to install a pick up to a nice guitar, needs to weigh the options, return value of the instrument vs the work it is going to do.

Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2007 16:17:35
 
Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
 

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Ricardo) 
As the guys have said above, there should be no difference when played acoustically. This does assume a professional installation - it is easy to get this wrong and end up with an installation that DOES affect the accoustic sound.

Assuming we are talking about USTs, it could affect the action too if the saddle isn't re-trimmed to compensate.

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Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2007 19:12:04
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Ex) 
The sound is different in front of the hole,on the back side of the guitar, inside of the guitar and of coures inside at the bottom of the guitar. So its DEFINETELY A BIG DIFFERECE with a pickup, a normal microphone and one for inside of the guitar... Just play your guitar and than let it play from another person in fron of you and youll hear it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2007 20:19:38
 
Ex

 

Posts: 15
Joined: May 23 2006
 

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Ex) 
For example I had a look at the "Alhambra 7Fc CW E2", it has a Fishman EQ. It would be nice for me to have a build-in mic/pickup, but if not it's also ok. The thing is, I am from Germany and we have only very few spanish guitars here and the most are Alhambra guitars. So I don't know if the Alhambra guitars are good, maybe you can tell me, if they are good or not.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2007 21:27:39
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Ex) 
Im from germany too and this evening I tested 7 different guitars. All very good and no Alhambra. I never saw an alhambra... If you look for a good flamenco guitar ingermany, contact mundo-flamenco. I met the owner Johannes this evening. He has all guitars you could imagine.. And please forget the thing with the pickup in an flamenco-guitar. Its like a tow-bar for a ferrari.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2007 22:04:32
 
Ex

 

Posts: 15
Joined: May 23 2006
 

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Ex) 
Ok I will forget it

I know the mundo-shop. So you tested 7 guitars there, tell me please, which one did you like the most ?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2007 22:15:16
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Ex) 
No hes in my town at the moment and brought around 20 guitars. Hmm. Which I liked most? I just tested everyone just 2min.. I liked a negra jacaranda most. I will est the guitars more tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. Well...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2007 22:50:13
 
TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Doitsujin) 
quote:

Im from germany too and this evening I tested 7 different guitars. All very good and no Alhambra. I never saw an alhambra... If you look for a good flamenco guitar ingermany, contact mundo-flamenco. I met the owner Johannes this evening. He has all guitars you could imagine.. And please forget the thing with the pickup in an flamenco-guitar. Its like a tow-bar for a ferrari.


I second what Doitsujin said. Johannes's business is the BEST in Germany. A great selection and he is very knowledgeable. Not to mention he plays very good too.

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Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2007 1:01:22

stephen hill

 

Posts: 300
Joined: Feb. 16 2004
From: La Herradura, Granada, Spain

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Ex) 
Its a very difficult thing, pickups in a flamenco. The sound is never quite right. the big players NEVER use a pick but use a mic in front. This gives the best sound. I have fitted fishman anbd b band and these sound ok but really nothing beats the sound of the real guitar with a good mic. ...... use that,, or buy an electric guitar!

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stephen hill - granada spain
http://www.spanishguitars.co.uk
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2007 1:20:13

stephen hill

 

Posts: 300
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From: La Herradura, Granada, Spain

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to stephen hill) 
that would be a pickup ( not a pick!)

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stephen hill - granada spain
http://www.spanishguitars.co.uk
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2007 1:21:21
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to stephen hill) 
hi :-) this is quite good http://www.kksound.com/trinityclassic.html

i used it in a small club a few times, its nice cause u can mix between the pick up and condencor gooseneck mic, depending on the sorrundings.

i am selling that guitar atm , but the i am sorry to see the sound system go :-(

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2007 3:04:10
 
Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
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RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to stephen hill) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: stephen hill
I have fitted fishman anbd b band and these sound ok but really nothing beats the sound of the real guitar with a good mic. ...... use that,, or buy an electric guitar!


Hi Stephen - the original question was whether having a pickup actually altered the natural (acoustic) sound of the guitar.

I don't think anyone would argue that miking up gives a better sound than a pick-up, but I would be interested in your views on whether your pick up installations actually altered the guitars natural (acoustic) sound.

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Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2007 9:23:59
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Ex) 
Well than I misunderstood the question too. So I dont know the answere on that, coz I woul never damage my guitars for a pickup. You need to meka a hole in the body of the guitar. A hole is a hole. And a flamencoguitar should only have one in the body,..the soundhole.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2007 9:35:51

stephen hill

 

Posts: 300
Joined: Feb. 16 2004
From: La Herradura, Granada, Spain

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Ex) 
Yes, should read the posts more! My experience with pickups is that they do alter the natural sound but of course this depends on the type. If you fit a transducer under the saddle especially the old fat type that never reached the full length of the saddle this can change the natural response as it takes some of the solid connection away between the saddle and the bridge. Also if the system is a powered one then you have the added weight of the endpin and battery to factor in. I've used recently an LR Baggs Ibeam that is made for the spanish system of construction. This is a small pickup block which fits under the bridge inside and has a slot for the central fan. I used this and it sounded ok... I liked it as there was nothing under the saddle to affect the conection as I mentioned before. I also used a double system with both the ibeam and a thin mesh transducer under the saddle with an eq on board.... sounded ok but not as good unplugged as when I tried the guitar without it in. This was for high volume big stage use in a rock band using one of my negras. Very controllable. Theres lots of things on the market these days.
and finally of course drilling a hole in the endblock hurts the guitars soul so it will always complain and not want to sound as well as it could... (joke)

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stephen hill - granada spain
http://www.spanishguitars.co.uk
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2007 15:14:33
 
Ex

 

Posts: 15
Joined: May 23 2006
 

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Ex) 
I know that there are many many good handmade flamenco guitars, but I am searching for a really good one around 1300-1700 $.
I want it with Solid spruce top and Solid Cypress back & sides and in this price range I only found some Alhambra guitars as well as the "Burguet 2F", "Hnos. Sanchis López 2F", "Sanchez 1027" and some others. I will post the next time. Is any of the listed ones good ?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2007 19:37:17
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Ex) 
quote:

"Hnos. Sanchis López 2F"


I recommend this one, and they even make one with the pick up installed already. You would be saving about 100 bucks to install yourself depending on how much the person charges to cut into your guitar. (in other words, get the one with the pick up installed already).

I for one will say that NO ONE ON EARTH would notice the difference if you installed a pickup on a good flamenco guitar, if all they had to tell the difference was acoustic sound ie a blind test or recording. In other words a before and after recording would not reveal an INFERIOR sound after the pick up was installed. Simply knowing an installation occured gives one a biased opinion. Asking some one to blindly ID which recording had the altered guitar would give differing results. In fact I think I will prepare a test.....

Insidently the amount of wood removed is not as much as say a Robert Ruck with sound ports, and the plastic on board controls plus battery not so much heavier than say the difference between a rosewood classical and a cypress flamenco.



Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2007 23:03:28
 
Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
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RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
I for one will say that NO ONE ON EARTH would notice the difference if you installed a pickup on a good flamenco guitar, if all they had to tell the difference was acoustic sound ie a blind test or recording. In other words a before and after recording would not reveal an INFERIOR sound after the pick up was installed. ...Insidently the amount of wood removed is not as much as say a Robert Ruck with sound ports, and the plastic on board controls plus battery not so much heavier than say the difference between a rosewood classical and a cypress flamenco.


And that's even IF the pick system includes all that plastic stuff. I've had a pick up system installed on a guitar with no onboard preamp controls, the preamp itself housed in the endpin jack (Fishman) so no cuts in the side of the guitar whatsoever. There was no degradation in sound.

I agree with you, assuming a pro installation of a good system, any audible 'difference' is down to bias and expectation.

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Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2007 23:53:46
 
Ex

 

Posts: 15
Joined: May 23 2006
 

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Ex) 
Hey Ricardo, thanks a lot for the info. But I can't find a model of Sanchis, which has a pickup system installed. How is it called, that has the pickup-system ?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2007 18:16:00
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Ex) 
http://www.lafalseta.com/SanchisLopez_flamencos.html

2F down at the bottom. Notice you can also get it with electronics. I recommend ordering from this company. This question has come up before. I posted a link to the photo of the exact guitar. If you GOOGLE it, you will find it. I won't post the link again because it resulted in a big problem on the forum with the company that has the photo. (In other words, I don't recommend you buy the guitar from the one and only on line company that has the photo of this exact model with cutaway and pickup).

Why must life be so difficult? I don't know.
Ricardo

(Hint to T. Nuñez. If you simply had a photo of this model, all that trouble could be avoided. )
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2007 1:44:47
 
Ex

 

Posts: 15
Joined: May 23 2006
 

RE: Does a Flamenco Guitar with Pick... (in reply to Ex) 
I am currently thinking of buying a rosewood flamenco, because I think cypress might be to hard sounding. I really want a warm and rich sound with some crispness as well. Should I take rosewood then ?
BTW what is the difference between a flamenco guitar with rosewood and a classical guitar with rosewood ?
Can I listen to a sample of a comparison of rosewood and cypress sound somewhere ?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2007 1:02:33
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