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'Staining' vs. color in the FP   You are logged in as Guest
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Ramón

Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca

'Staining' vs. color in the FP 
So I have a question, as I'm going to build again ( )....

A cabinet maker friend had a guitar stripped, and before the French'ing, he used a darker orange/brown stain, like some of the nicer Condes, etc., and the guitar is BEAUTIFUL! And sounds amazing, too!

So why do makers put the color only in the shellac? I've sen guitars that were 'splotchy' due to the fact that it's hard to get the color-layers even, and I saw a Conder where the shellac had actually chipped off, leaving bare wood.

Is it that the stain can close the pores of the wood, and not age and open up like the French process?

Thanks
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2007 14:48:22
 
steve

 

Posts: 103
Joined: May 6 2004
 

RE: 'Staining' vs. color in the FP (in reply to Ramón) 
Ramon,

A couple thought's. I believe the reason the color might be in the finishing material is to control its evenness. Because wood has different densities and porosity, more stain will be absorbed in the softer area's than the denser area's resulting in the splotches you see. Its one reason a cabinet maker, like myself, will use a gel stain that lays on top of the wood rather than a liquid that is absorbed by it. If your spraying lacquer that's been tinted with your color, as long as put on light coats to avoid puddleing, you should be able to easily control the color density or concentration. I'm going to be refinishing a guitar in the spring and will be tinting the lacquer.
What did your fried use as a stripping agent? Water base or mineral base?

Hope this helps. And I'd be interested in hearing other idea's on the subject from anybody else.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2007 17:18:12
 
Ramón

Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca

RE: 'Staining' vs. color in the FP (in reply to Ramón) 
I will have to check how the lacquer was stripped, and how the color was applied.

I didn't think about the differences in the wood grains, and I DO know that it would come out uneven. Why his is perfect, I don't know, but I'll ask and post.

I had just talked to lutheirs about how hard it is to used color-shellacs to get the same even color throughout.

I'm thinking, then, that one would do a clear French sealer to seal all the grains and pores, THEN build with color? (This is all hand-rubbed).

Rh
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2007 23:31:28
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: 'Staining' vs. color in the FP (in reply to Ramón) 
Ramon

I´ve French polished (with a pad) with slightly colored FP... And its very difficult. I dont FP any more. My polisher does it this way: Sealing with natural FP and a pad, thin spray with colored FP, and finishing of and building up with natural color and a pad.... But he´s a pro and I would never do it myself.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2007 7:47:09
 
steve

 

Posts: 103
Joined: May 6 2004
 

RE: 'Staining' vs. color in the FP (in reply to Ramón) 
I would agree with Anders polisher's approach. The clear coat prevents an uneven absorption of the color, the sprayed color coat ensures an even color, and the hand rubbing gives that beautiful luster from FP. The only other thing that I might consider would be a second natural coat, sprayed, over the color coat to prevent the following rubbing from disturbing the color coat. I haven't tried FP-ing yet and if the polisher is not having a problem, then it must not be an issue for him.
Any way, Ramon let us know what you find out about the stripping.

thanks
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2007 17:21:05
 
Ramón

Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca

RE: 'Staining' vs. color in the FP (in reply to Ramón) 
Thanks all..... I kind of had a feeling, as I watched someone have problems with 'all color', right onto the wood.

I thought I would seal with clear, then build with color, but the spray method sounds good. Get the color even, then finish with the clears.

Gracias...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 27 2007 14:42:38
 
chinito

 

Posts: 104
Joined: Jun. 14 2004
 

RE: 'Staining' vs. color in the FP (in reply to Ramón) 
Would a dye under the FP or lacquer work better than a stain? More intense colour options? Or more hassle?

-Jake.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2007 2:25:16
 
steve

 

Posts: 103
Joined: May 6 2004
 

RE: 'Staining' vs. color in the FP (in reply to Ramón) 
chinito,
The problem would be the same. If you put dye or stain on the bare wood, it will be difficult to control the color absorption.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2007 4:30:24
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