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2 more beautiful guitars lost.....
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Ramón
Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca
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2 more beautiful guitars lost.....
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PLEASE, PLEASE STOP! Please do NOT 'convert' a beautiful old peghead to machines "so it will be easier to tune". It simply isn't THAT much easier to tune to justify ruining such a beautiful, original, hand-crafted piece of art! Yet another Ramirez (on eBay) has been 'converted' (perverted?), and then some guy took a 1982 Bellido and added those funky 'Carlos' pegs AND added electronics??? (and "Pat Metheny playing this guitar"...Is he using a PIC??) Are these the guys on eBay that also sell gross lots of guitar pics in the Flamenco/Classical Guitars area!?? Or the guy who drilled hole in the head of a 60's Ramirez "so it would be easy to hang on the wall"?? If you MUST go 'mechanical', use the pegheds from Brian Burns (excellent, hard to tell they're not ebony), or simply have a very good luthier shave the pegs (or re-peg) and clean the holes. I have a little Negra re-done by luthier Bob Hein, and the ebony pegs tune almost as simply as a machine. Really... I know I seem passionate, as I do love peg heads as they feel like the 'essence' of flamenco guitar, but it's like taking a Van Gogh and "adding a few dabs a paint here and there to make it better"... These guitars ARE works of art. Trade someone your peg for a machine version, but save the history! R
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Date Feb. 14 2007 16:31:51
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Ramón
Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca
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RE: 2 more beautiful guitars lost..... (in reply to Ramón)
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I agree - in a way, but if you WANT machines, buy a guitar WITH them; don't buy something old, original, and beautiful - and THEN add machines. And for "stressed situations"; gigs, etc., simply use a guitar that already has machines. Grinding away at the head and adding machines isn't the art part of it, nor does it help the guitar. I just can't believe some of these beautiful old guitars aren't just left original. I'm sorry; I look at these things AS artwork; beautiful to hold, look at, AND play. I could not imagine finding a nice 60's Reyes or something and walking in and say; "Grind out these pegs and add machines so it's 'easier' to tune"...... "Oh...and add electronics to it, too, so I can really jam'..." Just my thoughts.....
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Date Feb. 14 2007 18:00:40
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Ricardo
Posts: 14952
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: 2 more beautiful guitars lost..... (in reply to Ramón)
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The problem is for the player, who uses the "art piece" called "a guitar", is that it is not always so easy to find a second guitar, that is both sounding and feeling like you want, AND practical and useful for your applications. Case in point, all the skinny neck, bad action acoustic electrics. Now, to some degree, good mics and sound reinforcement techniques can take it pretty far, but ultimately, there is a limit to how practical things can get. I personally have different guitars for different applications, but it takes some getting used to the different instruments. I wish I could have my best sounding/feeling guitar for EVERY application. There are many who don't have time or money to buy several, or get used to different guitars, so they make that "wish" a reality. I think changing the head stock for machines is a minor thing, if the guitar is so amazing sounding and playing. Cutting into the sides or body to fit electronics is something more significant and serious. Al dimeola added electronics and "cutaway" to his Gravina Conde! That is some serious "work" done to a guitar. But even worse, Paco de Lucia seems to be redoing his soundboard (jury still out?), which is the ultimate change IMO to what the guitar "is" as an art piece overall. But who am I to judge those guys about what they do to THEIR guitars? Ultimately, a guitar played a lot and well, is a guitar "loved" IMO. Ricardo
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Date Feb. 14 2007 18:50:57
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Ramón
Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca
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RE: 2 more beautiful guitars lost..... (in reply to Ramón)
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For me, it simply is this; If you don't like pegs, WHY BUY ONE AND CONVERT IT? It's like shopping for an automatic, buying a 5-speed, and then converting it. Why? There's so many out there, already. I see quite a few Reyes guitars with machines out there already. I see 1A Ramirez blancas with machines. There isn't/wasn't some "super deal" that saved some incredible amout of money to buy a peghead in such class of guitars (pegs actually seem to get a little better price from what I see), and for the "budget" guys who can only afford one guitar, why buy a peghead and then spend a substantial amount to convert it? It simply make no sense. And it's not about machines or pegs, it's about converting and losing the few pegheads that remain. Vicente's Reyes may sound amazing, but I'd bet it was BUILT that way, not converted. I've never seen a pic of him with pegs, so I'm sure he bought his Reyes WITH machines. It's not the sound qualities gained or lost, it's that I simply find such guitars beautiful (and more and more rare), and cannot imagine why someone would buy a peghead when there are SO many machine versions available, and then go cut into it to make yet another machine version. Sorry. I just don't get it. And Jim, it kills me what you are going to do. Can I go out and buy a Reyes with machines and just trade you???? But it IS a spirited discussion! lol
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Date Feb. 16 2007 1:06:19
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Per Hallgren
Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden
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RE: 2 more beautiful guitars lost..... (in reply to Ramón)
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Rereading my posts of yesterday I realize that my arguments are hidden behind "scientific" mumbo jumbo. Give me a new shot. Good guitars are good because of good design, good material and good craftsmanship. Great guitars are coincidences forced by luck and rare, gifted and extraordinary craftsmanship. Great guitars are rare because not even the best among us guitarmakers have this luck all the time. The movement of the neck is as important in a guitar as the movements of the top and back. In a great guitar all parts are in a balance which gives this "synergy effect" that the greatness is a proof of, i.e. the sum of all parts is something really bigger than if the balance was just a tiny bit different. Changing anything in such a guitar danger the balance and the greatness of the instrument. Changing from pegs to machines CAN change the balance and we all know that a change in weather can make our guitar sounding dull. Guitars are sensitive creatures, and the better they are the more sensitive they are and the more we risk to loose. Jim, if you were asking me for advice (and I know the you're not) I would say that it is risky going from pegs to machines. I am not saying that it is sure that the greatness disappear in your Reyes, only that there is a risk of, and if I had a good Reyes I would not take the risk. Just to make clear. To change a great guitar from machines to pegs would also be risky so this is not about pegs being better. It is about a certain and fragile balance that those rare great guitars have. And Ramón, I agree with you although it is a sentimental argument. I love pegheads for their own sake. Anders, if a guitar is not played because of the pegs the owner should be changed, not the pegs.
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Date Feb. 16 2007 7:27:28
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Anders Eliasson
Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
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RE: 2 more beautiful guitars lost..... (in reply to Ramón)
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quote:
Anders, if a guitar is not played because of the pegs the owner should be changed, not the pegs. Haha, yes Well, thats what I would do myself. The argument is about what is esthetically right, and I dont have problems with people changing their instrument, their tool for making art. I personally love pegheads myself, and every time a client ask for a peghead I get happy, because its such an esthetical pleassure to build one. With respect of weight. I dont think there´s a big difference. The peghead is massive and ebony pegs weigh something as well. Lightweight Fusteros are light and what you cut and drill away from the head weighs as well. I´ve built some 5 - 6 pegheads. Enough to notice that they play different. They have a certain attack or vibration that their machine head sisters dont have. The sound is more "poppy" and dry, more old school. They are charming , but often less forgiving because they are so transparent in sound. You hear everything which can be tough when you are not a monster player.
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Date Feb. 16 2007 7:44:43
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Per Hallgren
Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden
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RE: 2 more beautiful guitars lost..... (in reply to Jim Opfer)
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Jim, all I try to say is that you know what you have but you don't know what you get. It is true, your guitar could get better, even more magical, but it could also get worse, loosing that magic. I am not saying to anybody that it is wrong to convert from pegs to machines. I just want to offer my insight that the guitar is very sensitive and that a guitar that is magic in it's current state could loosing it's magic if one change something. It is up to the owner to take the chance. A guitar is not a holy relic, I agree with Anders in this case, but on the other side, those totally magic guitars ARE RARE. If you own one of those rare guitars, please don't change it. If you own a guitar that is simply good or very good, go on. Do what suits you. It will most probably still be a good guitar after the conversion, although somewhat different.
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Date Feb. 16 2007 17:26:09
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