Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
|
|
|
following compas with the foot
|
You are logged in as Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic: none
|
|
Login  | |
|
   
Ricardo
Posts: 14866
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
|
 RE: following compas with the foot (in reply to ChrisAudio)
|
|
|
It is a personal choice, and there is not a "right" way or "best" way, assuming the end result is EVENESS and groove. My leg gets tired with 1 2, 4 5, 7 8, 10 11 as you say. I feel bulerias as medio compas pretty much all the time. Two ways I feel it:
12, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 or 12, 3, 6, 9 with the foot. But that is the counts, the actual FEELING to me is like this with the foot:1,2,3/1,2,3, or 2 medio compases where 12, and 6 are DOWN beats. The other way is like a waltz in 6/8: One 2,3, TWO 2,3/ONE 2,3 TWO 2,3 again 2 measures or medio compases. 12 and 6 are down beats again, 3,9 are the secondary beats.
I can play any bulerias stuff against either of these two feels, half compases don't throw me off either way.
Ricardo
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jun. 16 2006 16:07:52
 |
|
Ricardo
Posts: 14866
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
|
|
RE: following compas with the foot (in reply to ivan)
|
|
|
quote:
they were so caught up w/ counting that it took focus away from them actually learning to feel it. Am I wrong in thinking this?
No, that is typical of course. In fact it is that way with all music that has rhythm. When you can do it you don't think, you "feel" it. In fact if you can't feel it, you can't do it. But there are many ways to communicate rhythm since it is simple math. taka taka TAH, or ONEe&ah TWO, uno dos tres cuatro, etc are different ways of "counting" the rhythm.
I hung out with drummers in college so I picked up on the way to "feel" the meter as it is written. They would write out "cadences" for each other to learn and could "feel" it by looking at the paper before they played it. They could play it off the page, at tempo, at first glance. I think flamenco music is often done a dis-service the way it is typically or carelessly written out interms of meter. There is a way to convey the proper feeling but I rarely see it on paper.
The counting buisness "uno dos tres cuatro cinco seis", etc makes no sense to me interms of meter, but it is a way to translate into a lingo, the rhythmic ideas the musician and dancer need to communicate and create with. So flamenco dance accompanists need to learn that language. But unfortunately a lot of people think THAT particular counting system is a way to learn the MUSIC and compas of flamenco, and it is not really. The best thing is to first learn how to play and feel the groove, then later apply the counts to what you have up to tempo already. Counting is a way for the musician and dancer to be "on the same page". But you dont' need to count first to play something, nor do you need to be able to count and play at the same time.
If you happend to be a great reader, meaning you can sight sing any rhythm at tempo like a good marching snare drummer, then I feel you COULD actually learn something about flamenco compas from a WELL written score. But as I said, you don't see a lot of well written scores of flamenco.
Ricardo
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jun. 18 2006 6:42:37
|
|
Ricardo
Posts: 14866
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
|
|
RE: following compas with the foot (in reply to Exitao)
|
|
|
quote:
So the metronome tempo feels like half a compas, because it's at half the pace of the compas?
NO. The half compas occurs in a "12 beat" type rhythm like bulerias, when you have a phrase of only 6 counts, that might not repeat. It throws everyone for a loop that learns to count in 12 and holds that as a golden rule of compas. The point I was making was that I feel the so called "medio compas" or 6 count phrase as the fundamental measure, and I don't count to 12 or 6, I just feel that measure. So a "half compas" would feel like just an odd measure of rhythm, nothing fancy to count. Most music is made up of even measures so that is why it jumps out as "weird". The medio compas always occurs as counts 6-11, or 12-5, so you can think of counts 12 or 6 as the down beats of the measure.
I like to think of what I tap my foot to as the "beat", (and I always think of the beat as the quater note), so I tap my foot THREE times in a measure of bulerias before the feeling of the phrase repeats. 12, 2,4 is one measure, 6,8,10 is the next measure, and so on, but I dont' count like that unless I am talking to some crazy dancer. I dont' need to feel 2 measures always to be in compas. To me it is just a feeling of 1,2,3 that is pretty simple to me anyway.
Ricardo
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jun. 18 2006 6:55:45
|
|
|
Guest
|
|
RE: following compas with the foot (in reply to ChrisAudio)
|
|
|
So here we are again with this counting thing in bulerias.
For everyone new here, we´ve had some very hot arguments with people leaving the forum etc. a year or two ago. They were mainly discussed under the name of counting two and you can most probably do a search and read them. Some of them are LONG 
I count like Ricardo. I call it to count two or three. The two thing is mainly for standard compás and complicated off beat falsetas, the three counting is mainly for all the falsetas with a more "swingy" three feeling.
The best way of learning compas (IMHO) is to listen to it. I put a solo compas cd on, I count to it, I jump to it, I dance to it, and sometimes I work to it. It takes some of this intelectual approach out of the whole story and makes compás part of your body. Good flamencos have tha compás in their body and not in their head 
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jun. 18 2006 7:56:31
|
|
Exitao
Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada
|
|
RE: following compas with the foot (in reply to Ricardo)
|
|
|
quote:
NO. The half compas occurs in a "12 beat" type rhythm like bulerias, when you have a phrase of only 6 counts, that might not repeat. It throws everyone for a loop that learns to count in 12 and holds that as a golden rule of compas. The point I was making was that I feel the so called "medio compas" or 6 count phrase as the fundamental measure, and I don't count to 12 or 6, I just feel that measure. So a "half compas" would feel like just an odd measure of rhythm, nothing fancy to count. Most music is made up of even measures so that is why it jumps out as "weird". The medio compas always occurs as counts 6-11, or 12-5, so you can think of counts 12 or 6 as the down beats of the measure.
I like to think of what I tap my foot to as the "beat", (and I always think of the beat as the quater note), so I tap my foot THREE times in a measure of bulerias before the feeling of the phrase repeats. 12, 2,4 is one measure, 6,8,10 is the next measure, and so on, but I dont' count like that unless I am talking to some crazy dancer. I dont' need to feel 2 measures always to be in compas. To me it is just a feeling of 1,2,3 that is pretty simple to me anyway.
Ricardo
Let me try to say back what I think you mean. If I'm wrong you can smack me.
A full count of the compas is 3 measures, so you tap your foot three times for each measure, coming to the resolution of the compas. You like to think of it(or feel it?) as two measures of 6 beats, which are the compas accents. This is your medio compas?
About the crazy dance part, is that because they think more in contra tiempo?
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jun. 18 2006 8:32:11
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts
|
|
|
Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET |
0.109375 secs.
|
Printable Version
I think playing with other musicians is a very good training. By that I don't mean playing only with flamenco guitarists or dancers, playing with any kind of musician is helpful for rhythm and from there on it's probably a lot easier to get into flamenco compas. Because a lot of flamenco guitar fans are entusiasts, playing alone in their rooms and I can understand, it's tough. You think you can play Amigo and when you crawl out of your hole and try to play this things with other musicians, you receive a severe ego blow, you realize it's just not that easy..... 
