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I have always been a Bulerias guy and my repertoire pretty much only includes bulerias falsetas. But I recently decided to explore Alegrias and I am so glad I did so. It's such a beautiful and "hopeful" palo. I overlooked something really good for so long lol.
Posts: 16435
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: A few words about Alegrias (in reply to metalhead)
Being from Algeciras down near Cadiz, Paco de Lucía always excelled at this form. He first had these in E minor (or "Rosas" as Ramón Montoya called them), which feel much like Soleá in the minor key, these two combined into one piece from his first and third LPs:
And upgraded to the modern style with this master piece in A major, arguably his best composition and playing:
Of course for the singing, Aurelio, Pericon, Chano Lobato (we miss Morante to dump these here), and Rancampino. Camarón borrowed much from La Perla, and likely it is in this style where PDL felt him as a paisano. Having said that I was always quite impressed with this performance by Catalan folks at 12:56:
Posts: 3023
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England
RE: A few words about Alegrias (in reply to metalhead)
quote:
I have always been a Bulerias guy and my repertoire pretty much only includes bulerias falsetas. But I recently decided to explore Alegrias and I am so glad I did so.
Ive always been kinda the oppostite.
Alegrias all the way. obvious to many, but since you ask. (but in various keys) Tomatito - Canailla, La Ardila manolo sanlucar - puerte del principe Vicente amigo - maestro sanlucar and la tarde es caramelo and canto any paco alegrias Antonio rey - aromas de la caleta
bit different santiago lara - sentimentos nuevos juan carlos romero - tran tran Ruben levaniegos - (on YT) El Despertar
I also got a few cool (modernish and very playable) falsetas I could share from various lesson with santiago lara and manuel valencia.
RE: A few words about Alegrias (in reply to Ricardo)
Thanks for sharing. I will listen to them all.
In the meantime, I had a question. I immediately went to learning Maestro Sanlucar as soon as I heard it and noticed a lot of picado passages with awkward string crossings.
What are your thoughts on "finger dragging" as opposed to strict alternation? By finger dragging, I mean using the same finger to move from one string to the next rather than alternating fingers.
I’ve done this quite a bit in specific situations. For example, when a run requires only a single note on one string before moving immediately to the next. In those cases, I might play the one note with the middle finger, drag that same finger to the next string, and then continue alternating normally from there.
It has worked reasonably well for me so far, but most of the scales and picado passages I’ve played have been fairly short. Since this piece contains a lot of longer runs and some challenging string crossings, I’m wondering whether finger dragging remains a viable approach in that context.
Do you think it can still be completely fine, or does it tend to create consistency and speed issues over time?
Posts: 3023
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England
RE: A few words about Alegrias (in reply to metalhead)
I was always taught and under the impression that it wasn't done... but I've seen it done penny.
Infact im chicuelos encuentro at least one of his picado runs is transcribed that way. With instances of dragging...
I've mentioned that specific run (cantinas) on this foro a few times and always struggled with it... I was playing alternate i m obvs.... and i hadn't noticed the double i instances.
Doing it this way, after some practice and un training my brain has made it so much more payable.
Posts: 168
Joined: Sep. 4 2010
From: Northern New Jersey
RE: A few words about Alegrias (in reply to metalhead)
I think dragging is just fine as long as you dont do it too much. For me it makes sense and I believe Vicente uses it quite a lot (for which Manolo would beat him up of course).
Meanwhile when learning myself that alegria, I was not using any finger dragging. But maybe I am still paying for this by not being able to play it without mistakes from the beginning to end, except few times in my lifetime (luckily captured on video).
quote:
ORIGINAL: metalhead
What are your thoughts on "finger dragging" as opposed to strict alternation? By finger dragging, I mean using the same finger to move from one string to the next rather than alternating fingers.
I’ve done this quite a bit in specific situations. For example, when a run requires only a single note on one string before moving immediately to the next. In those cases, I might play the one note with the middle finger, drag that same finger to the next string, and then continue alternating normally from there.
It has worked reasonably well for me so far, but most of the scales and picado passages I’ve played have been fairly short. Since this piece contains a lot of longer runs and some challenging string crossings, I’m wondering whether finger dragging remains a viable approach in that context.
Do you think it can still be completely fine, or does it tend to create consistency and speed issues over time?
Posts: 16435
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: A few words about Alegrias (in reply to metalhead)
quote:
What are your thoughts on "finger dragging" as opposed to strict alternation?
It is a luxury we are afforded in only one direction between two notes. You can not do it with an ascending melody. Simply put, use it but be conscious about it and careful so you don't get into sloppy habits. In my case I always check for optimal finger options that make the passage flow. In most cases I can avoid the drag by changing one note. In a few cases I have no real choice so I go with the least awkward thing and drag that one finger, always the same one, and try to be careful with the tone that it sort of still sounds like alternating. In other words I very much "prescribe it" for a special case, an exception to the general rule, and I don't think I ever use it when improvising.
Why is it a general rule to avoid? I am thinking of the very fast runs of Paco de Lucía where he manages to do better with awkward string crossings and strict alternations then dragging a finger. Not sure I have ever really even noticed it once in the fast runs. He basically proved to us students that strict alternation is
A. Logical, and his ascending runs always sound other worldly, and B. He manages to do it descending. It "can be done" in other words.
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