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RE: hijos de vicente tatay (in reply to mecmachin)
The bridge models at madinter aren't bad because you can choose the interstring spacing. https://www.madinter.com/es/nuevo-puentes-clasica-y-flamenca.html#676=918 The flamenco one with 185mm length isn't bad, but very flat. It certainly will need sanding as the soundboard isn't all flat. The classical one is 8mm high, that would be great, but it is too short (183), leaving 2mm at each side...
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RE: hijos de vicente tatay (in reply to mecmachin)
Just pop it off, clean it up, and glue it back on. Doesn't make sense to put a new one on, it's best to keep these things original. Honestly, it looks eminently repairable.
it makes sense insofar that the action is too high (like 5mm 6th string at 12th fret), the bridge itself being too high, and the breaking angle is pretty flat.
Pop it off with a bit of heat?
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RE: hijos de vicente tatay (in reply to mecmachin)
If you're looking to turn it into a flamenco action then you could probably get away with it by making a new bridge. If the action is now 5mm at the 12th then knocking 4mm off at the saddle gives you a nice 7.5mm string height there with 3mm at the 12th, which are nice numbers (on paper). So that's an idea. I'm not sure anyone sells flamenco dimensioned pre-made bridges, however, so you'll probably have to carve your own.
But that doesn't mean it's going to work. You still have to evaluate why the action is sitting at 5mm to start with. Was it by design or has the neck angle changed, or is it the neck itself that's out of whack? The reason I'm asking is just getting the action down at the bridge isn't going to do much good if the neck itself is in unplayable shape. So you could be looking at a fingerboard adjustment and refret as well as a new bridge.
You might be falling into one of those "lipstick on a pig" scenarios. The current bridge does have to come off and re-attaching it is no big deal, but the whole system should be analyzed before committing yourself to doing much more than that, IMO.
Oh, and for removal, for sure you'll need heat, some moisture, and a good thin spatula. Generally if you get the bridge up to about 145-150 degrees F the glue should start to loosen (depending upon what they used). If it's hide glue you'll have to introduce moisture and it won't hurt doing that if it's aliphatic too. You've got a lot of gap already to get in there with the spatula, just work sideways so it doesn't jab into the long grain. There's lots of helpful videos online about bridge removal, it's not so difficult if you're patient and don't force things, just take your time and let the heat do the work. Mark the spatula at less than the width of the bridge so you don't push it past the mark across to the other side and muck up the finish. Mainly be careful about not imbedding the spatula into the top wood when you work with the grain as you can go right through the top. It can feel just like you're pushing against glue, so that's why it's best to work sideways when possible and give the heat a chance to loosen everything up.
One last thing...if it's held on with hide glue sometimes you can just knock the bridge off with a sharp rap. I've only heard that it can be done that way, however, I've never had the guts to try it myself. But sometimes that's all it takes (apparently).
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Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: hijos de vicente tatay (in reply to mecmachin)
Is it really worth it to invest money and lot of effort in to this guitar? Unless it's just a fun project I mean these are very cheap factory beaters which sell brand new for 150 to 250 dollars.
RE: hijos de vicente tatay (in reply to mecmachin)
I’d just make some hot hide glue, put the bridge under a hot light for 15 minutes and use pallet knife to shove a whole bunch of hide glue in the seam. Then put a few clamps on it. I’ll last another 50 years.
Then you could just operate on thr bridge in place. Take some cardboard from a shoe box and cut a hole the exact size as the bridge and put it over the top and tape it down with the bridge peaking out of the hole. A mask to protect the top. Use a chisel or plane and cut the tie block lower until it’s just above the string holes, glue a thin piece of something hard on top of the tie block. Viola!
Take out the saddle and shave down the saddle hill with a chisel or plane and reshape it into a dome shape. Take off about 3mm- then put the saddle back in and shave down 2mm off the saddle.
If you did that you’d get a 4mm string height at the 12th fret on the bass E
Break angle? Fill the string holes with toothpicks and super glue. Buy a long 1.5 mm drill bit at Ace Hardware. They used to sell one about 6” long. Drill an extra hole 3mm to the right of each hole, voila! 12 hole bridge, that probably buys you 3 to 5 degrees break angle.
If it were me, however, I’d hang it on the wall as is and admire the beautiful Tatay label.
RE: hijos de vicente tatay (in reply to mecmachin)
Tatay guitars are cheap rough cut guitars, and mostly look like they were thrown together in somebody's dinner hour. You can tell how much they cared by the stamp they used to put on the back of the headstock, that was rarely central. E hijos means 'and sons' so it was built by his descendants.
Your high action is nothing to do with the bridge. It's likely the neck has too much relief causing the neck angle to be off. If that's the case, you can heat clamp it back, or even pull the frets and plane the fingerboard.
Then you'll need a new saddle for sure, and probably a new nut. The bridge itself just needs to be removed and reglued.
Is it really worth it to invest money and lot of effort in to this guitar?
I think, in the interest of science, he should rest a block of wood against the front of the bridge and give it a good whack with a hammer and see if it'll pop off without taking half the top off along with it. Or give the guitar to one of those arty dancers and they can flail away with it and eventually Mr. Windmill will bang it against something and then maybe the bridge will come off on its own.
The problem with trying to glue it back down "in situ" (is that even a word?) is sometimes the bridge will take on a curl along the bottom as it slowly lifts. Then no clamping in the world will get it back down. In those cases it has to be removed and the bottom shaved/scraped.
RE: hijos de vicente tatay (in reply to mecmachin)
Thank you guys for all the valuable input.
Well, the overall geometry isn't perfect, but not hopeless either. When pressing down the chord at first and last fret, there is less than 1mm of space in the middle of the neck. The neck itself looks straight, but the frets have a little concave bent, sooner or later refretting would be a good idea, but first I want the bridge issue to be solved. The original is 10mm + bone exceed, which I find too much.
I will meditate on this and keep you posted once a reasonable result is in view. I d certainy prefer being a guitarrista to being a guitarrero...
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Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: hijos de vicente tatay (in reply to Firefrets)
quote:
Your high action is nothing to do with the bridge. It's likely the neck has too much relief causing the neck angle to be off.
It is a classical guitar man. That is how they are all built except in rare cases where the Luthier didn't care or notice the neck locked in position a little forward. For me 9mm is the cut off, above is a classical set up, below flamenco. It SHOULD be by design, but for whatever bizarre reason, many flamenco builders don't concern themselves with it too much. As one boasted to me before his build "I can hit any number I want in MY solera, you will see 8 mm and no buzzing". Final result? Way over 9mm and buzzing like heck.
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