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Posts: 2006
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: Online flamenco Cordoba course (in reply to silddx)
Yes everyone had to bring a guitar. Myself as a left handed player certainly did. I didn’t bring my Devoe because I can’t get another one but I have a beat up Ramirez that’s a pretty good guitar. One last thing about the letras. A student from Seville suggested the letras be translated so that we could better understand the intent and Paco said he never pays attention to the words, only the melody. Tino has said the same thing to me in the past.
RE: Online flamenco Cordoba course (in reply to Mark2)
quote:
One last thing about the letras. A student from Seville suggested the letras be translated so that we could better understand the intent and Paco said he never pays attention to the words, only the melody. Tino has said the same thing to me in the past.
Ah, interesting!
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The early bird catches the worm. But the second mouse gets the cheese.
Posts: 2006
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: Online flamenco Cordoba course (in reply to dartemo1)
Yes, Paco speaks some English but most all of his comments were in Spanish, however, the founder of the school took video and translated many of Paco’s remarks. I wasn’t concerned even though my Spanish is terrible. My wife is fluent, and once she heard me listening to a pre recorded lesson from Tino and asked “Do you understand what he’s saying?” I said no, but I understand what he’s playing. Over the years I’ve been in some Latin music bands and between that and hearing the wife jabbering I’ve picked up a fair amount. I really had little trouble dealing with hotels , restaurants, etc until today when I had a heck of a time finding the rental car office. They said it was in the bus station but it turned out to be in an underground garage across the street. Now I’m in Lagos and I don’t understand a word.
quote:
ORIGINAL: dartemo1
Very interesting indeed! Was the course taught in Spanish?
Posts: 15722
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Online flamenco Cordoba course (in reply to Mark2)
quote:
My wife is fluent, and once she heard me listening to a pre recorded lesson from Tino and asked “Do you understand what he’s saying?” I said no, but I understand what he’s playing.
I have known Tino since 1999. My Spanish has gotten much better over the years, the last time I was in Sanlucar (2021) I had a conversation with a long time Spanish friend there that never spoke English and he commented on how it was the first time we had a real conversation (cuz I had a much bigger vocab). So Tino has a thick accent or something in Spanish, I can barely understand him most of the time even though I can converse with Spaniards ok. Typically he talks to me in Spanish and I delberately answer him in English (hoping he will switch over), then he replies in Spanish and I reply in English again and on it goes that way.
I met Pollito de California in Sanlucar, I think in 2007 (he is a “flamenco comedian”). He insisted on speaking Spanish the whole time and pretended with me that he only spoke Spanish (he is American). By coincidence I met his brother, who had a hook hand, in Portland Oregon the next year. So that summer he was back again (he performed his comedy act in the Contratiempo bar), and my Spanish was better so I started talking to him in Spanish this time, and told him I met is brother and he suddenly switched to English very excitedly, “holy sh1t!!! You know my BROTHER?!!?”.
Posts: 15722
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Online flamenco Cordoba course (in reply to Mark2)
quote:
Whew that was a rather testy debate. :-) a buddy of mine speaks Spanish well but has a difficult time deciphering a lot of cante.
Yes, well, I read through it again and don’t need to add anything major to my first sentiment. I will say that some of the folks that didn’t like my post pulled stuff out of the whole that rubbed them wrong, such as Kiko there, who ignored the thing I said about fandango is boring if you don’t start learning Spanish, so I was always advocating that one SHOULD. But I was emphasizing the musical aspect is the essential one. Romerito jumped on my ethnomusicology thing, which I apologized for but he takes those things personally and still does. We have hashed it out off line already since those days, but I would say that NOW I am more educated and can actually single out names that he wanted me to do. He was basically calling me out that I had NOT actually read much of their stuff. Well, now I have, I would go back and generalize that it is WORSE than I imagined. “MUSICOLOGIST” should have been my issue, not ONLY the ethno guys. I could go person and by person that I have read and issues going on, but maybe some other thread someday.
Then Estela came on and pointed out an important thing I did not emphasize strong enough…if your Spanish is so bad you can’t tell a line of verse/text is repeating then you certainly could get lost in the letra. More often the melody itself saves you from this issue, however she claimed in those last posts that a Spaniard would NEVER make such an error, which is an exaggeration. They certainly could make the error if they did not know a specific poet delivery such as “una Reina no era”. I would have made that point and I think she would have understood me there (if the topic had continued), because it is one where knowing the poem in advance might trip you up if you anticipate what the singer might do just like Caracol did, and they change it. What really helps whether you speak Spanish or not, is to at least know a bunch of standard letras by memory. In fact that is basically what is going on with flamenco knowledge, we learn or interact with new letras and styles of melody and seems to continue almost infinitely. Even old people learn new things all the time in this genre.
Posts: 2006
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: Online flamenco Cordoba course (in reply to Ricardo)
I’ve been studying with Tino for a few years online. I finally got to meet him in person. I went to a show he did at Casa de Memoria in Seville. He has his own style. Very personal and very advanced imo. After I hung out with him and I got completely drenched walking back to the apartment in a rainstorm. It rained so hard that it knocked out my gps on my phone. A ten minute walk took 30 minutes as I fumbled my way through the alleys of Seville. The last night of the class he showed up at a Pena in Cordoba and played a solo concert. He blew everyone away with his incredible musicianship and compositions. It was pretty amazing.
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Posts: 2006
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: Online flamenco Cordoba course (in reply to Ricardo)
I get what you’re saying about fandangos and how since the changes are often pretty set, understanding the words increases the enjoyment. Re the comedian, I don’t know him but am familiar with that kind of arrogance from some non Spanish Flamenco folks. It’s insecurity imo. I’ve found that great artists in any style are almost always humble. Except Al Dimeola!! Haha
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
quote:
Whew that was a rather testy debate. :-) a buddy of mine speaks Spanish well but has a difficult time deciphering a lot of cante.
Yes, well, I read through it again and don’t need to add anything major to my first sentiment. I will say that some of the folks that didn’t like my post pulled stuff out of the whole that rubbed them wrong, such as Kiko there, who ignored the thing I said about fandango is boring if you don’t start learning Spanish, so I was always advocating that one SHOULD. But I was emphasizing the musical aspect is the essential one. Romerito jumped on my ethnomusicology thing, which I apologized for but he takes those things personally and still does. We have hashed it out off line already since those days, but I would say that NOW I am more educated and can actually single out names that he wanted me to do. He was basically calling me out that I had NOT actually read much of their stuff. Well, now I have, I would go back and generalize that it is WORSE than I imagined. “MUSICOLOGIST” should have been my issue, not ONLY the ethno guys. I could go person and by person that I have read and issues going on, but maybe some other thread someday.
Then Estela came on and pointed out an important thing I did not emphasize strong enough…if your Spanish is so bad you can’t tell a line of verse/text is repeating then you certainly could get lost in the letra. More often the melody itself saves you from this issue, however she claimed in those last posts that a Spaniard would NEVER make such an error, which is an exaggeration. They certainly could make the error if they did not know a specific poet delivery such as “una Reina no era”. I would have made that point and I think she would have understood me there (if the topic had continued), because it is one where knowing the poem in advance might trip you up if you anticipate what the singer might do just like Caracol did, and they change it. What really helps whether you speak Spanish or not, is to at least know a bunch of standard letras by memory. In fact that is basically what is going on with flamenco knowledge, we learn or interact with new letras and styles of melody and seems to continue almost infinitely. Even old people learn new things all the time in this genre.
Posts: 2006
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: Online flamenco Cordoba course (in reply to Mark2)
This year it's going to be alegrias. Starts on Oct 3rd. Same location, which was amazing-a beautiful courtyard in Cordoba. I'm going. Also going to Granada for a few weeks before. Working on my Spanish. And of course my playing.
Been digging the work of the late great David Serva. Here's my take on his work with El Falo por solea. It's not exactly what he played but that wasn't the intention. I did appreciate a few variations from the standard accompaniment.
Sorry about the terrible palmas but when I removed the guitar with Moises there was no way to hold onto the compas, so I added a track of me doing bad palmas in order to stay with the cante. This also meant some speeding up here and there as Sr. Serva wasn't playing to a metronome or anyone doing palmas. I'm laughing at the beginning because I butchered the falseta right before the start of the video :-)
Hope to see some of you guys there. I know some of the guys from last year are in. Any chance you can make it Diluk?
RE: Online flamenco Cordoba course (in reply to Mark2)
This is great, Mark, I enjoyed that!
I was hoping to make it to Cordoba this year but I have had two major family bereavements recently, so it's not going to be possible, all my trips will be family related. But hope to be there next year.
_____________________________
The early bird catches the worm. But the second mouse gets the cheese.
Posts: 2006
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: Online flamenco Cordoba course (in reply to silddx)
Thanks Silddx! Sorry for your loss. I have reached the age where that has become a depressingly regular occurrence. Hope to see you there next time!
quote:
ORIGINAL: silddx
This is great, Mark, I enjoyed that!
I was hoping to make it to Cordoba this year but I have had two major family bereavements recently, so it's not going to be possible, all my trips will be family related. But hope to be there next year.
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So Tino has a thick accent or something in Spanish, I can barely understand him most of the time even though I can converse with Spaniards ok. Typically he talks to me in Spanish and I delberately answer him in English (hoping he will switch over), then he replies in Spanish and I reply in English again and on it goes that way. 
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