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Was talking with a guitarist around here who claimed to play flamenco (he doesn;t). Anyways, we then talked about good music vs bad music. He claimed that there is no good or bad in music and even wen on to say that music can't be categorized (flamenco vs jazz vs blues etc). In short, he said: Music is music and doesn't hold boundaries.
I shared the complete opposite idea of him. I think music does have good and bad, subjectivity is present. Somebody can just pick up the guitar and play something and claim it's good music because music is objective?
I think to a small extent I do agree, but that comes only when a person has worked hard to play music. After that, if they are composing music, they are expressing something they find good, and hence it should not be judged as good or bad. Part of the reason why I retracted by statement about Antonio Rey playing with 'no soul' a few months prior
RE: Subjectivity vs Objectivity (in reply to metalhead)
Of course Antonio Rey has no soul when playing. He actually does not have any soul at all as he obviously sold it to play as good as he does.
Anyway, there is not much of a benefit to contradict anyone that does not understand at all or does not want to understand. The reason is quite different than what people admit. But again it's not your job to make anyone right according to your opinions. It is OK to disagree with someone and you can both keep on living. You can always change the topic
25 years ago, after playing jazz fusion with a trio in a bar, I had a half drunk musician coming to share his insights about music in general, as he thought he might help me. Among other things that were not actual sentences he also told me things like, music is all about getting drunk and also how I should treat women etc. You see the point.. there is no point in arguing in some situations.
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RE: Subjectivity vs Objectivity (in reply to metalhead)
It is both. A musical piece was created for "some reason", and in many cases, it is not even the business of the outside listener. If we experience elation from the sound, that is about the listeners and our experience, not necessarily the creator's "greatness" or ability to express something. Rhythm is a big area where we find an "objective" thing were you either get it or you don't get it, and there are ways to test that. So many people think they have a good feeling for rhythm when they are actually rushing or dragging or otherwise annoying someone else that can hear the issue.
But there is an objective reality at the same time. The "truth" let us say (loaded term). For example, in music school a composition class the teacher explained how a comission works, and in one situation he preyed upon the people hiring his work. For film, they offered to pay him "per measure", so he already had a long piece in 4/4, and he simply rescored it in 2/4 to "double his money".
When people don't have understanding, they miss out on what the heck is going on. You might like or not like some music, good for you, but if you have to work with other human beings, you need to "pull your own weight", as in there might be some objective, collective thing that requires you to have the minimal amount of competence to function.
Music is a wonderful thing that forces us to confront our own inadequacies, which can be subjectively terrifying or humbling thing. It can make people out right give up. It is objectively true, from my subjective vantage point, that if people educate themselves, do the hard work, etc., in music, they will improve their lives in some external way. Maybe financial, maybe fame, maybe simply a better understanding of something that they never would have enjoyed before that now enriches their living experience.
RE: Subjectivity vs Objectivity (in reply to Ricardo)
Objectivity rules.
When I went to university I had no money, so I formed a group of rock. A second hand Vox copy of a Strat, a third hand 30w Selmer amp. We played most weekends and earned very little but enough to stop sleeping on somebody else´s floor.
Then Cream came to play and we were the opening act. Clapton with his Marshall stack and a 335 Gibson, not to mention Ginger Baker with an enormous drumkit and the great Jack Bruce.I often think of it as the worst group in the world opening for the best group in the world.
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