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My theory is that he does the usual rumba strumming and he puts apagados for each strum. All the moving around between the bridge and the neck is just for show. What do you guys think?
well it does actually do something, it changes the percussive tone, the body of the guitar is like a drum thats why the gypsy kings as well gabriella from rodrigo y gabriella are able to give such variety in their golpe movements.
i tried this tech out after seeing him in concert and its rather nice. he seems to tap the board as well with the middle and ring finger in the movement as well.
When he does it above the sound hole he's also stopping the strings while making a golpe. I think the golpe sound is higher at the top of the sound hole and deeper when it's below it. With the additional percussive sound of deadening the strings after a rasgueado. At the end he aslo does a rasgueado from above the soundhole right after the golpe. (maybe he does it earlier, but I didn't catch it).
I think he does a few rasgueados below, golpe/stop above the sound hole, and uses a gople to back down below the sound hole and maybe stops the strings again...
I know it's easy to critisize but for me Juan Martin = Manitas de Plata
in juan's defence, juan can keep in compas, whereas manitas de plata had'nt a ballz notion of compas and claimed to be the worlds greatest flamenco player even when what he played was'nt flamenco.
Thing is, I have just read a two/three page article in Classical Guitar March 2006 written byOliver McGhee on Juan Martin titled, 'Juan Martin - The Flamenco Pioneer'. He states, 'Juan has been voted one of the top three guitarists in the world' and here's a cracker 'Juan attests to being one of the only flamenco song writers in the world and uses his compositions to further the boundaries of flamenco writing' I mean, come on! I can only imagine that this is a total missunderstanding on the part of Mr McGee and Juan is sitting somewhere right now with a big red face
as you know jim, alot of crap gets written in guitar mags, guitar techniques and total guitar were faves of mine but now they seem ooohh so tabloidy....
as i said before the boundaries of language and culture stop people like paco or tomatito being know only by a select few, which is indeed a shame, though in france alot of people know paco as he's put in alot of guitar mags, like guitare classique, acoustique etc, which i now have subscriptions to.
as you know jim, alot of crap gets written in guitar mags, guitar techniques and total guitar were faves of mine but now they seem ooohh so tabloidy....
I have a friend who is a Industrial Psychologist and his first name is Carroll. There was a convention that was written up in a local newspaper by someone who claimed to be in attendance. The reporter referred to the speech that my friend gave and kept saying, “she”. I think not.
A good one is about Chuck Berry. He hates to miss airplanes and when a concert is over he leaves – like right now! One day some years ago a San Jose Mercury news reporter stopped Chuck Berry at the airport and asked, “Where were you born”? Mr. Berry stated, “San Jose, California”! Well, he was really born in St. Louis, Missouri.
Even to this day if you check books like “The Rock and Roll Encyclopedia”, you will find the birthplace of Mr. Berry as San Jose, California.
What a reporter says and reality sometimes seem different.
That's the difference between Manitas de Plata and Juan Martin! One definitely IS flamenco. My first real encounter with flamenco was Juan Martin's recital and it got me started. And I'm still at it till now.
Sure he's not a great composer or player but he still has the technique down right, has the compas and seems like a great teacher/person.
My point wasn't to insult him. Rather I'm trying to get people to listen to his recording of the rumba. IMO it's outstanding for a solo rumba, I almost hear 2 guitars plus a percussion instrument combined into one guitar. Go listen to it!
Shroomy, if you want to learn this stuff, Juan demonstrates all these techniques in his video La Guitarra Flamenca. I play a very similar rumba of his (which I prefer) and it always goes down a storm. Audiences love that slapping etc
Video 3 has the rumba stuff featured in it, though he does one at the end of vid 2 also.
And yes his whole slapping, apagado combo is there.
The whole series is now sold together on DVD. Well worth it for an insight into old school style unles you are strict freebie freak
Otherwise, look out for the VHS video on ebay. I bought one myself not so long ago to complete the series (the rumba one, funnily enough), paid a tenner for it.
To all those critics of Juan: You are really crazy saying he's out of compas in a funny rumba thing. He didn't even pay much attention to playing it. Juan is the master of compas - listen to his Tarantas or Bulerias..
all of you anyone can make up a rumba like that, just play the notes around the next chord,in the sequence and do some arpegio, on the chord, than play the 3 notes again before you do the next chord in the sequence...its predictable and unimaginative ...melody says nothing to me except you are guys are English (talking about the Tv audience) u dont know any better.... il just play it really fast hitt the top of the guitar for effect .....give me a freakin brake ........... shut up florian- .............
I dont think playing in compas is a skill its a bare minimum at that level
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- If thats the flamenco sound we looking for f*ck it , il quit right now, cause that had the musicality of beating rusty bucket really fast
---------shut up florian ---------------------- il tell you why u confusing it for a good rumba its a good crunchy sound due to the guitar and mic and compressor. ........................................................
Anyone want a transcription ? Ask Conrad if hes got a spare 2 minutes (i am not even exagerating)... its 4 chords and about 7 notes ... .................................................................... sorry i bited my tongue for 4 days i couldnt anymore, if Juan was part of this forum i would have not said anything I would encourage him but hes not.
Sorry i dont wanna upset u guys not in the list but C OME ONNnn
God bless him tho, hes hanghing in there, still with the 60s spanish look (u know the shirt and vest)
...ok shut up florian .....
just 1 last thing.. If Juan was a guitarist starting out today playing that he would starve to death. the only thing about juan is his name and his history.
Just for once whomever agrees with me please get off the fence and say something. I dont wanna be the bad guy here but C OME ON.
He's out on the paloseco at the beginning. During the melody it's not tooooo bad, it's just sloppy. And then at the end he speeds up briefly.
As far as its goodness, it doesn't float my boat, but I suppose it is some kind of music, and that's a wonderful thang. His music is simple, socially inclusive, and appeals to a mass audience. I occasionally like music of that ilk if it is truly original or if the artist has a special charisma or some other appeal, and he has none of these things, humbly submitted. In any regard, being stuffy about musical tastes or being elitist is an ugly stance, but if we're just trying to educate people, I applaud that form of effort on behalf of the Juan haters.
Juan was in my town recently, billed as "one of the three best guitarists in the world", and he received rave reviews from those I asked. It is so difficult to refrain from trying to inspire those people to listen to stuff that I prefer. But, he has done well for himself. I just wish there were Spaniards of exceptional talent, as there are in abundance, who were doing as well internationally. It would be good for the progress and understanding of flamenco.
One may even argue that Paco is not as well known. I don't know.
with so much tact, sorry i exercised no tact (i just wanted to say something and didnt put much tought in how ), but we are saying exactly the same thing.
quote:
'Juan attests to being one of the only flamenco song writers in the world and uses his compositions to further the boundaries of flamenco writing'
just that that got my blood boilling, i have read alot of things like that poor guy he gets missquoted alot, almost every country outside spain, is like they cant understand his accent and just make up the words
nah, we compliment each other. Your bluntness and passion is just as valid an approach. And more entertaining. hehe Hope you're doing well, playa.
As far as transcribing this rumba for someone, ya, I could knock it off in little time, but for those interested, why not have a go at it yourself? Ear training will do wonders for everyone's playing etc... I'm not kidding.
I always delude myself... I say "if I can hear it, I should be able to play it eventually." There is some small truth to it, within reason and given much dilligence.
no serious man i dont hate Juan (i hear hes a nice guy), i just tought that rumba was weak, and badly performed and shaky compas and a very weak melody (u could only get away with playing stuff like that to non flamenco audiences outside spain) and then i read the part
quote:
'Juan attests to being one of the only flamenco song writers in the world and uses his compositions to further the boundaries of flamenco writing'
and after that i dont remember what happened
truth is Juan dosent really matter outside net forums, in all my time i have never had a conversation with a guitarist here or from Spain and said , "that Juan guy puah, hes got some stuff dosent he, have u heard his latest album'
I am not even sure how often if ever his name ever comes up in flamenco cirlcles in Spain
I dont mean any disrespect to you or anyone else.. its purely between me and that video and his comments to the press.
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, that cracked me up after the other guitar thread 
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