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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 18:43:11

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to Guest)

http://www.encuentro.ch/FSE.htm

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 18:53:31

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 19:00:01

Conrad

Posts: 533
Joined: Jul. 16 2003
From: Toronto, ON, Canada

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to Guest)

I also highly recommend these ones. Of course, much depends on your skill level, but my favourites are, in this order, Gerardo Nunez (for technique nothing beats it), and Tomatito because he's the man.

I don't know why they are so expensive, but I might venture a guess on one thing... From a transcribers point of view, the books are extremely well written, and there is a great wealth of material in them. I suspect it takes a lot of time to make the transcriptions, even though they have the video of the artists.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 19:25:06

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to Guest)

quote:

This is outrageous!! Is it only one DVD? Why is it so expensive??

Lionel,
They cost a lot more in the UK!
Yeah...they are expensive if you compare them to the same Artist's entertainment DVDs/CDs.
But in this series these Maestros slow down and show you exactly how they do it.
It's taken them a lifetime of practise and work...
You could easily spend $110 taking only three one-hour lessons from another student.
So is it good value, or not?

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 19:57:27

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to Guest)

No, three lessons from a mediocre student is much better than well-crafted DVDs of the best player in the world, all transcribed for you.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 20:00:36

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to Guest)

quote:

The accompanying music book contains the complete music and tablature, as well as translations of the spoken comments (Spanish) in English, French and German

Only spanish comments in the vid???

Lessons are invaluable IMO. There is nothing that can replace a good advice on your playing by someone who knows what ur doing wrong.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 20:33:40

gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

No, three lessons from a mediocre student is much better than well-crafted DVDs of the best player in the world, all transcribed for you.

Can't agree more. If anything, these DVDs should be viewed as supplemental material to a teacher. But a teacher should be the foundation of a flamenco education, not any DVD.

You should look for a teacher not based on how well he plays, rather how Spanish he is (i.e. how immersed he is in the Spanish culture). A good flemnco teacher is one that lives the flamenco culture and can instill that on you.

It's so wrong to view flamenco as a collection of techniques and scores, which a lot of the DVDs end up doing.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 20:42:09

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

No, three lessons from a mediocre student is much better than well-crafted DVDs of the best player in the world, all transcribed for you.

I'm incredibly surprised at your view here Mike.
I mean..after all..you are a very analytical guy...and here are these great players showing you slowly how they do it?
Why would you prefer to go to some student of dubious background to get explained in detail why you can't do what he can't do?

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 20:47:24

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 20:52:36

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to gshaviv)

quote:

You should look for a teacher not based on how well he plays, rather how Spanish he is (i.e. how immersed he is in the Spanish culture). A good flemnco teacher is one that lives the flamenco culture and can instill that on you.

How do you judge that as a first time student?
How do you know that the guy isn't just self taught and "teaching"you stuff only from his own ideas and dogmas and experience of maybe just listening to Flamenco records?

Is the guy any "good"...or can he just talk about what he thinks is the technique of the guys who are good and charge $30 an hour?

The players on the Encuento series have proven track records.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 21:02:17

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to Guest)

quote:

Three lessons from a mediocre student are much better than DVDs of the best players.

OK...I'm sold!!

Ron is now giving lessons...
£20 per hour.
I promise that they will be intensive and genuinely geared at imparting all of my knowledge to the student.
PM me for my phone number...

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 21:10:35

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 21:17:20

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to Guest)

quote:

No, but really, 110$ dollars is outrageous no matter who is teaching the DVDs

Yeah...but you could easily spend that on a meal and a bottle of wine with your girfriend at a mediocre reastaurant, to celebrate a special occassion.
(A good restaurant would be charging that per person.)
That's the difference...
It's all about priorities...

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 21:44:16

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 22:01:25

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to Ron.M)

Guys,
I was joking, actually. Sure, it's good to necessary to be around other musicians, but if we are actually just comparing $110 dollars then the Encuentro is definitely a better buy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

quote:

No, three lessons from a mediocre student is much better than well-crafted DVDs of the best player in the world, all transcribed for you.

I'm incredibly surprised at your view here Mike.
I mean..after all..you are a very analytical guy...and here are these great players showing you slowly how they do it?
Why would you prefer to go to some student of dubious background to get explained in detail why you can't do what he can't do?

Ron

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 22:05:33

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to Guest)

Shroomy.
If you can get private lessons of these guys you shouldn't hesitate to do so.
But if you can't, these video's are the next best choice to get a tiny look in there kitchen.

It's not about duende, compas or the way of life. But concerning technique it sure created some light bulbs above my head

.

So, take Ron's advice

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 22:08:21

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 22:09:20

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to Guest)

quote:

It's all about priorities...

Ricardo, (a noted player around here) has a complete library of Flamenco CDs, DVD's, Bootlegs...everything he can lay his hands on.
Doesn't work as an IT Consultant or a Web Page designer or anything..
Just earns a living playing and teaching Flamenco guitar.
Over the years he has spent thousands of bucks purchasing stuff and going to schools in Spain each year.
Gerardo Nuñez said that he has got his computer organized in a way that he can call up every falseta from Paco, Vincente, Tomatito....and more.
These guys put a lot of time, effort and money into this...
Is it any wonder why they play so much better than one hour a day, bedroom players looking for "free" stuff on the Internet?

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 22:14:49

leo

Posts: 61
Joined: Aug. 2 2005

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to Guest)

Is there a tab for paco serrano Amanecer en la vega (Granaínas) from his cd mi camino?
It's not on his encuentro book

http://www.encuentro.ch/FSE.htm

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 22:49:57

gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to Guest)

quote:

Shroomy726:
I am not trying to buy these DVDs to learn flamenco 100% from them. I already have a teacher who has been playing longer than anyone in this forum. But the matter is that he is very old. I know I am learning flamenco puro from him, but I also want to introduce myself to modern flamenco puro. The Encuentro series I think would be perfect for this.

Then you are not using the DVDs as a replacement for a teach, rather to suplement it. Which is exactly how I think they should be used. Having the right approach and attidude from the teacher, you can make more out of the DVDs.

quote:

Ron:
How do you judge that as a first time student?

There is no replacement in life to good judgement except perhaps good intuition. No answer for that one, except try the teacher for a while and see what you feel. I tried 4 teachers before settling on my current.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 22:56:19

Gummy

Posts: 495
Joined: Nov. 27 2005
From: North Carolina, USA

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to Guest)

I have no teachers available, so for now, I count on my DVD instructors(Gerhard Graf Martinez, Aaron Gilmartin, Oscar Herrero), FT, and you on this forum.

I have the Nunez DVD. It is way above my level for now, but I love to put it in once in awhile just to enjoy the performance sections. Sometimes when I'm practicing, I feel like I can't get any headway. It helps to put someone on who I can watch that has smashed way past the barriers I face. I can watch the smoothness of their movements and sometimes I can try to copy their ease of position, movement and feel, and it seems to help. I am very happy with the purchase.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2006 23:43:25

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2006 1:59:44

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to Guest)

In order to learn, I really feel you have to be a good student. Anybody can be a teacher for you: going to a concert, watching a video, one on one lesson, just talking or reading an interview. You have to be open. We are all different when it comes to how we manage our spending. But you have to ask yourself, do you want to LEARN, or find a cheap/fast/easy deal?

Most of the encuentro vids are NOT really teaching vids. They play slow sometimes, but you are supposed to be observing closely. The video is focusing on things you need to SEE. All of the "teachers" are masters, but not necessarily real teachers. They are generously letting us view their art under a microscope. A teacher will give feedback and answer questions, go slower if possible, depending on the student. But ultimately it is up to the STUDENT to figure it out for him/herself.

So $? Since the 80s, instructional guitar videos such as REH series that focus on famous players, have been 30-50 bucks US. Usually for an hour of material. VHS. Transcription books, thick with tab and standard, $20-50 depending on how many will be printed, number of pages, etc. More popular or more printed CAN be cheaper (Van Halen, Dave Mathews, Metallica...) Flamenco guitar ain't the hottest commodity, plus most flamencos don't read, so, transcription books are a little more precious. So add book to video and you see the price is normal. Too bad they refuse to sell them separately.

Anyway, Nunez vid was discussed and reviewed before. Check the archives here. JBASHORUN I think? Anyway, Nunez is one of the few maestros who takes the time to talk and teach you something rather than ONLY play. And it is TWO hours long (2hrs), double the time of most of the other vids. It is the "most for the money" relative to the others. Plus the guy plays almost as good as Paco de Lucia, who does not have a teaching video.

For me, the best "deal" for flamenco guitar students is the Rito y Geografia del Toque series for $170. Nothing slowed down, but the focus of camera shots are very helpful for study. And the interviews are good. (People trying to learn flamenco should NOT complain about the language problem. Start learning spanish too. Use the written translation that comes with accomp. booklet). Now if that came with a complete transcription book of everything in the video, for $400, it would be a damn GOLD MINE!

Good luck!

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2006 5:22:11

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to Guest)

quote:

People trying to learn flamenco should NOT complain about the language problem. Start learning spanish too. Use the written translation that comes with accomp. booklet

Sorry that its just my dumb 2 cents, but I find it almost contradictory, at least not professional, making a DVD that should help others, even if its not that instructional, selling it for more that 100$ and *not* doing a simple translation audio (at least in english). Even undertitles would have been better that this one (if its really only in spanish).

Actually I am thinking of learning spanish too, but not beacause I need it to understand a 100$ DVD, but because it would interest me. Maybe this sounds silly, but english undertitles are really expectable from a DVD today and no "luxury".

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2006 12:06:09

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to XXX)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz
Maybe this sounds silly, but english undertitles are really expectable from a DVD today and no "luxury".

Ay, ay ay, the kids these days... you know at one time people who wanted to learn flamenco had to, you know, journey to Spain...spend some money...spend some time...expend some effort. Nowadays I guess we can all go to the TAB section and learn how to play like Paco de Lucia for FREE!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2006 14:13:52

seanm

Posts: 169
Joined: Apr. 5 2005
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to Guest)

There should be no discussion of what is better. It is all good. Everything you can get your hands on to learn is good. Haven't we all re-wound as 3 sec section of a PDL video snippet where the director graciously showed a closeup of a picado or similar? Well with the encuentro you get 1 to 2 hours of that close up. You get to see the expected level of performance. You get to see what it is like to see a professional slow down and demonstrate how they might practice (can you play a 4-5 minute piece at half tempo without mistakes or speeding up or entirely in compas?).

Let's not forget, flamenco is tradiitionally an aural learning experience. You watched others and learned by watching and remembering. In the early Segovia era, you didn't go buy a book of his technique and transcriptions. You followed him around and watched him play to figure out his technique. There were no videos and only a few recordings. You learned by going to concerts and watching masterclasses.

Granted a beginning student may only be at a level where they can use an encuentro video as inspiration and nothing more but for a more advanced player there is so much to be taken from 'beween the lines' when watching such high level performances.

As for price, you get enough material to work on for a few years in one package (if you really learn what's there) and that works out to not very little money compared to the investment you make when you practice every day.

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2006 14:15:13

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to Guest)

Miguel, 4000 years ago travelling to spain was almost impossible or at least very dangerous! And another 4000 years ago maybe other things that were possible afterwards, werent possible at that time either. I bet you get the gist ;)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2006 14:56:31

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to XXX)

Deniz,
I know, we live in an age of opportunity. Though I wonder, sometimes, if we are losing maybe the most important thing of all-the ability to focus and work hard! I look at the way I was taught in school and the way my parents were, and their way encouraged much more discipline. Imagine how much you would focus if you actually invested yourself in traveling to Spain and living on the street. Now what about googling it on the internet, taking 45 secs--how much focus does that encourage?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2006 15:49:23

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: Encuentro? (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

Ay, ay ay, the kids these days... you know at one time people who wanted to learn flamenco had to, you know, journey to Spain...spend some money...spend some time...expend some effort. Nowadays I guess we can all go to the TAB section and learn how to play like Paco de Lucia for FREE!

Where's this tab section?