RE: Nail shape for different guitar techniques

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Filip

Posts: 405
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Ricardo)

Got it, thank you so much Ricardo!
I'm gonna try the ramps and see how it goes.

Regarding glue wears, what do you do when parts of the glue fall off and there is a tiny hole (except from throwing the glue bottle) ? Do you just apply other layer, or you remove the damaged layer first?

Btw, the arcs are even more formed now than before, I can clearly see the difference both visually and in playing.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2023 21:34:41

devilhand

Posts: 1605
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

I see sharp edges. They must be rounded?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2023 12:52:04

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Filip)

quote:

Regarding glue wears, what do you do when parts of the glue fall off and there is a tiny hole (except from throwing the glue bottle) ? Do you just apply other layer, or you remove the damaged layer first?

Only gently scrape loose chunks that are ready to fall off. Just fill the holes (no need to be perfect, I just brush again over the entire nail). It is VERY tempting to scrape it all off, don’t do that.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2023 15:33:22

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

I see sharp edges. They must be rounded?

Again, that is a 2D picture. You can see the video I posted again…the nail arcs in the 3D you can see in the photo. You need 3 photos at different angles to really get it. In my video when you see me turn to the side angle you clearly see the pointed or sharp angles….the string doesn;t go under those it sits on top of the cliff so to speak. And when you pluck the string glides along the ramp. Two points of contact move along the straight edge and meet somewhere at the release point. That is why you don’t really want the pointy or rounded nails because the release point will have a more brittle tone.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2023 15:35:17

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Ricardo)

So yeah I have mine now shaped like the red lines on filips pic. However I find my anular finger is a bit of a stumbling block.

I still feel good about things as a whole but my ring finger seems to catch on the strings on the wrong side of the slope. beyond the peak and closest to my moddle finger.

I think this is beacuas of my wrist/hand position in relation to the strings.
It's fine when my hand is a direct right angle to the strings (ie 12/6 oclock) Which is understand is optimal?

But my learned/natural position until now has be at 11/5 oclock.ish.
So a slight rotation away from the right angled position.

Do you think I should be aiming for this nail shape and work on re-learning my hand position?
or adjust this nail slightly to allow me to keep my hand position?
(i think it would be a small shaving off that peak)
or taking it to its extreme...the ramp going the other way? towards my pinky.

Im sure i saw in that old scott tenant book that some folk rampe dthat way.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2023 10:36:25

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Stu)

quote:

Im sure i saw in that old scott tenant book that some folk rampe dthat way.

Scott Tenant and many classical players keep a straight wrist for arpegios and tremolo…same as flamenco pulgar but with a flat wrist. In this case yes you ramp them, probably middle finger also will need it, positive incline toward pinky. I have noted a “zipping” noise on arpeggiated bass notes from some classical players due to this close to 45 degree angle of attack. But the standard flamenco position for arps etc, is with the wrist cocked to the side, making the fingers hit straight on, closer to the bridge, or rather middle finger hits at 90 degrees (the other two at opposing degrees around that because the fingers curl inwards like i=11, m=12, a=1 O’clock). And you can see in Filip video why the long edge pinky side will catch. So the red exaggerated lines I drew are for the bent wrist position only.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2023 14:38:22

arielestulin

Posts: 15
Joined: Oct. 21 2009

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Filip)

Nail are such a personal thing. No two hands are alike and everyone will have preferences for length and shape. Have you seen Pedro Bacan's nails, they're weapons! Screenshot from a video. Don't know how he was able to play so clean with that nail length.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2023 4:11:26

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Filip)

i think the best sound its a mix of touch with the tip of the finger and nail , just nail doesnt sound much solid and you ear more of the nail or just nail

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2023 11:06:51

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to arielestulin)

quote:

No two hands are alike and everyone will have preferences for length and shape.

Not really. Of course you will find extreme cases. Over the years I find the same typical stories going on. Simply put, many people are stubborn and don’t realize what they are missing until they try it.

_____________________________

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www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2023 17:35:26

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Ricardo)

Had two nails broken right when I started this thread. Finally they've grown out and I'm just at the point where I have fully functioning and optimum shaped nails with their fancy new style..... And snap!!! Opened a door with a wet handle and crack!! Split my middle nail!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2023 14:14:55

ernandez R

Posts: 742
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Filip)

Posted without comment :/

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doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2023 20:15:08

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to ernandez R)

I chip mine thum. on that spot , i was lucky , only the nail protetor , no nail..

so , this nail protector works , im happy with..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2023 20:55:48

davewphx

Posts: 126
Joined: Jul. 11 2011

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Filip)

Yikes ernandez, that looks awful! Is that your thumb? That's why I like that sheet for my thumb that I told Silddx to try. It can't shatter like that.

Bummer stu, this is why I can't understand these guys who have extremely long nails like in that photo arielestulin posted. How can you do laundry, or walk the dog, or do anything other than play guitar with those crazy things.

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Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2023 21:39:21

Filip

Posts: 405
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Filip)

So far I've been following the advice regarding not scrapping all layer off if there are wear offs, but I've been wondering also why is that important :) So would anyone care to give some details, I would really appreciate it.

I am also curious about few more things. If you look at the image below you'll see that the glue is in terrible state, especially the long cracks along the nail. I suspect that this is happening mainly because it is very cold outside these days (around 0 Celsius), or because it is very dry in my apartment (~30%), or both. Does this ever happen to you? I also noted that these long cracks sometimes appear between applying glue and playing since I don't plat right after applyin, so these are not the result of playing.
You'll also see well on the index that the surface is quite ruff, is this normal?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2024 18:59:10

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Filip)

quote:

So far I've been following the advice regarding not scrapping all layer off if there are wear offs, but I've been wondering also why is that important :) So would anyone care to give some details, I would really appreciate it.

I am also curious about few more things. If you look at the image below you'll see that the glue is in terrible state, especially the long cracks along the nail. I suspect that this is happening mainly because it is very cold outside these days (around 0 Celsius), or because it is very dry in my apartment (~30%), or both. Does this ever happen to you? I also noted that these long cracks sometimes appear between applying glue and playing since I don't plat right after applyin, so these are not the result of playing.
You'll also see well on the index that the surface is quite ruff, is this normal?

As skin cells die, the stuff flakes off. At points where the skin cells are in good shape, the glue is attached. If you scrape off any that is not loose, you run the risk of pulling off good skin cells, just like when pot holes form on the icy road after rain, or when the snowplow truck scrapes the ice off. Chunks of nail come off like chunks of road. You do this a lot and you end up with very thin nails that take a very long time to regrow. People that experiment with glue often end up in this situation and blame the GLUE for weakening the nails, rather than themselves for scraping good nail material off. As the stuff naturally flakes off, you simply fill the pot holes in the glue, protecting the good nail underneath. In your image this happens to my nails if they are flexed at some point, from some activity that does not involve playing. This can cause chunks to flake of prematurely, which is fine, again just apply another coat. Also the bumps occur from single coats that disappear if you apply a second coat on top. You can apply as many coats as you want, so long as whatever was underneath was dry. For me one thick coat is usually enough. Imperative to store in ziplock airtight…don’t leave bottle exposed, it goes bad like food.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2024 19:58:14

Filip

Posts: 405
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Filip)

Very clear, thank you Ricardo!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2024 20:25:32

Filip

Posts: 405
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Filip)

I have a question about glue again. So far I've purchased the glue four times and it seems to me that what I've got the last three times does not work as well as the first order (the first was kiss brand, then since it's out of stock the following two were something else, and the fourth one is the same kiss but I got it from the US).

The glue makes an arc which is fine, but I noticed that the texture is very different from the first experience. It's rather quite smooth/uniform after being applied (unlike being "rough" as with the first bottle ever used). Also the experience in playing is not the same as with the first bottle, it's as if there is no big difference. Could this also be the sign that the bottle is bad? Am I that unlucky to have seven bottles delivered in three orders and no bottle is good hm?

What I noticed though is that none of the bottles is in the sealed package, maybe that is the problem? But then the kiss one in the last order is with the open package, and is the same as the one from the first order, so I'm confused. I want my glue-powered super-playing back

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 16 2024 15:15:06

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Filip)

Yes, this stuff is like food, and they don’t put on the born on date unfortunately. I have a similar issue with painkiller over the counter that I have to get the youngest available bottle or I find it does not kill the pain as well. So with the CA glue it is a problem. We never know until tried. As I said, if the first coat is not working I throw it out. When I find a fresh bottle it dries proper and really works well. I keep it in a plastic zip bag for freshness and it will last for MONTHS. When it does not, last that long, then I know that whatever I had purchased was not fresh in the first place. (Dealing with one bottle now that I got only a month ago and needs to be discarded).

Perhaps we can do a deep dive to discover a brand that actually puts a bottled date on the box. Perhaps write to that address in UK and ask WHERE the freshest bottles are going so you can order from that source. Other products not for nails such as KRAZY glue (there is a version with brush which is perfect), will work and perhaps are more fresh. I found some in Spain simply called “Pegamento” and it was in a similar bottle etc, and seemed to work. So you might have to look around in Europe for products with a BRUSH that are called Cyanoacrelate as the main ingredient and if it turns out only drip type bottle is known to be fresh, then you will have to give up on the nice brush applicator for the sake of FRESH glue products.

The hole in the back always concerned me because IF the bottle had been opened ONCE, it will not survive that exposure. It should, in theory not be affected by a bottle never opened, but I am not sure. Perhaps a proper sealed fresh bottle would last until the last drop used for a year or something, and even my best experience were from old bottles that thanks to the ziplock preserved what life they had unnaturally. I don’t really know, and only experiment will inform us.

Good luck man!

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 16 2024 16:15:00

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Filip)

i dont have that issue with the Eveline nail therapy 8 in 1

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 16 2024 17:39:20

AndresK

Posts: 313
Joined: Jan. 4 2019
From: Patras, Greece

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Filip)

Here is another useful video for nails, although this guy plays classical he is a monster nevertheless.

Check out his MA speed

here at 2:55

On his channel or generally on YouTube you can find most classical pieces he plays at jaw dropping speeds, with unmatched clarity, ease, and perfect sound.

My wife, when she sees him on the videos, says that his hands seem to be like the Hulk's.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 17 2024 23:07:19

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to AndresK)

As he moves to the bass strings, his wrist arches quite extremely. If you see Scott Tenents pumping nylon, he explains how to keep the wrist more straight from doing that by looking at the whole arm as a “tone arm of a record player”, essentially what Paco and a lot of flamenco players do as they move treble to bass with fast runs.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2024 11:15:14

AndresK

Posts: 313
Joined: Jan. 4 2019
From: Patras, Greece

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Ricardo)

I always do what Scott Tennant, Paco and many others do,
as Jerónimo also told me, to lift the elbow.

And also I try to keep the right hand as relaxed as possible, but Hulk over here..

He also uses a ramp but shortens the extended part of the nail to reduce eventually the length as he sees it.

To me, filling away the edge as he does, messes with the flat ramp. But again, if I leave completely untouched the edges, eventually they start to catch the string getting all my strokes slower with the need for more effort to get the nail off the string. I will post a photo explaining which part of the nail eventually gets in the way. When this happens I mess the ramp a bit for speed's sake.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2024 13:51:54

AndresK

Posts: 313
Joined: Jan. 4 2019
From: Patras, Greece

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Filip)

Here the corner that causes trouble when gets too long.

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Attachment (3)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2024 14:00:03

JasonM

Posts: 2058
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Filip)

Ive had the same issue with KISS glue ever since the pandemic supply chain crisis. The stuff i've ordered from amazon was often already bad and old. Its frustrating. I usually like to buy it in store but its often out of stock.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2024 19:51:15

Filip

Posts: 405
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Filip)

Thanks for your replies guys!

quote:

if it turns out only drip type bottle is known to be fresh, then you will have to give up on the nice brush applicator for the sake of FRESH glue products

Yeah, just about to try one tonight that came in my mailbox earlier today. There was another one with the brush, but same old thing.

quote:

Ive had the same issue with KISS glue ever since the pandemic supply chain crisis. The stuff i've ordered from amazon was often already bad and old. Its frustrating.

Exactly the same story.

I'll keep you posted if I find something interesting. And I actually do intend to contact a company or two, but I don't expect anything to happen. We'll see.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2024 20:29:25

Filip

Posts: 405
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to AndresK)

Looks similar to my situation with nails, especially the middle finger which I had to round a lot. But it's different when I apply the glue.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2024 20:48:27

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to AndresK)

quote:

Here the corner that causes trouble when gets too long

yes, this might depend a bit on your wrist angle (see video of Ida Presti, your nail shape would work for her drastic angle). For me, only your type of ring finger would work due to my wrist angle. Index would be especially problematic. And also yes, if you try glue the nail edge your arrows point to will curve INWARD, such that when you plant your finger you would see the string never goes under there, and you could actually have a sharp right angle rather than rounded. The rounded thing tells me you are letting the string go BEHIND that part (traveling along the side, around the corner and then along the ramp).

If you don’t want to try glue, then you might have to experiment with it more.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2024 21:00:19

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Filip)

temperatures rised , still , crazy , 26º since 3 days ago , tomorroy will drop 10º ....

since the temperature rised the nail protector varnish got thicker and dry very faster , and it sucks..... , just realize this some days ago...

So i found a solution , a girls solution , i recall some girlfriends put the nail varnish in the fridge and never asked why , now i know.... put it today and its normal again

So the advice is , when temperature rise and lower humidity (or normal) put the varnish and or Glue at the fridge!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2024 14:13:51

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manitas de Lata

temperatures rised , still , crazy , 26º since 3 days ago , tomorroy will drop 10º ....

since the temperature rised the nail protector varnish got thicker and dry very faster , and it sucks..... , just realize this some days ago...

So i found a solution , a girls solution , i recall some girlfriends put the nail varnish in the fridge and never asked why , now i know.... put it today and its normal again

So the advice is , when temperature rise and lower humidity (or normal) put the varnish and or Glue at the fridge!

No jeez that won’t help. As I said, secure it in plastic air tight zip bag or other type sealed container at ROOM TEMPERATURE. Or regret it, I don’t care anymore.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2024 14:53:33