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Question about accompanying cante
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orsonw
Posts: 1941
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London
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RE: Question about accompanying cante (in reply to Stu)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stu Also cantes aren't songs? Isn't the literal translation of cante, song? Or are you meaning they aren't complete songs? Depending on performance or artist letras can be mixed, omitted, added, changed etc... different letras sung together can have no connecting narrative. The melody doesn't happen for a set number of compas, the melody isn't fixed relative to the compas, the music can vary under the same melody, the lyrics can be changed, melody interpretation/embellishment can vary, key is highly variable depending on singer, tempo is highly variable etc.. Even if specifying down to a style within a palo e.g. solea Frijones 2, that doesn't fix any of the above. Compared to songs which are written and arranged, have set lyrics and musical structure, (usually a typical tempo/key), etc..
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Feb. 9 2024 20:48:51
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Ricardo
Posts: 14845
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Question about accompanying cante (in reply to Manitas de Lata)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Manitas de Lata cante is sing , song is cantiga , like cantar (cante) is to sing , or like canzone is cantiga or canção or song good question , is a jam or impro still a song? Not sure what this jibber jabber is about. Song is “cancion”. A sung melody in the flamenco genre is “ un cante”. It is also an umbrella term for flamenco singing in general, where the letras or coplas are not related, often attached to individual cantes (melodies). A “cantante” is a person who sings canciones. A “cantaor” is someone who sings cantes flamencos. When non-traditional melodies and letras or coplas are incorporated into a palo (flamenco song FORM, not “song”), it is called “cuple”. Cante is often divided between cante jondo or cante grande (synonomous), and cante Chico (lighter themes, or faster festive tempos). The “macho” is a specific cante that is used to “rematar” a group of cantes of a certain style. (For example joaquin 3 of Solea de Alcala). When you have an orthodox full performance of cante por solea, you don’t think of it is a “song” or cancion…it is as stated “cante por solea” or “Soleares”. People that constantly refer to “flamenco song” wrongly believe this is folk music. The term “cante Gitano” is wrongly assumed to be a specific group of cantes, but in reality is simply meant to distinguish when a performer is gitano vs. not gitano. “Cante payo” is not a separate thing in other words, or would be considered derogatory of the performance. Cante Andaluz is sometimes used as an umbrella for Fandango and fandango subset cantes, yet does not imply gitano or payo. However, before the term “cante flamenco” or even “flamenco” was a public term, “cante gitano” might have been synonymous. For example, in George Borrow Bible in Spain (1838), he meets a female prison warden’s daughter (carcalera) who plays the guitar and was “Cantando á la gitana”, which she does all night. She (from Toro) learned this from a boyfriend from Andalucia she said. The collective term in place of “flamenco” genre was “Los del Afición”, so it seems. In Estebañez Calderon (same year) he observes “cantador” for the singer rather than “cantante”. The idea of the letras of Romance, as observed and still done today, is that there is a relationship that tells a story. However, the music that is used functions just like song FORM, rather than cancion, so is generally thought of as a medieval precursor to the flamenco palos. See the recent posts of Villancico by Norman Kliman.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Feb. 12 2024 15:20:14
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