Question about accompanying cante

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metalhead

Posts: 126
Joined: Apr. 15 2023

Question about accompanying cante

While accompanying a new cante piece, what should I play when the guitarist plays his falsetas? Should I play compas or my own falsetas or do I need to learn all the falsetas that the guitarist plays? If I play my own, then it comes to length of time. My length of falseta and there would be different..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2024 15:28:24

orsonw

Posts: 1941
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Question about accompanying cante (in reply to metalhead)

Flamenco cantes are not songs. The length of singing can vary, lines may be repeated, shortened, lengthened, there may be a respiro or not, different cantes can be used/mixed together etc.. depending on the moment and the artist.

The length of falseta/compas/remate also varies depending on the moment and artists.

If you are using a cante recording to practice then during the falseta you can play compas or just seco. You can learn the falseta if you like but you don't need to.

You could use the mosies.ai app to remove the recorded guitar and count the space to fill with your own falseta/compas but in real life these lengths are not fixed.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2024 18:56:58

Stu

Posts: 2540
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Question about accompanying cante (in reply to metalhead)

This thread is frying my head a little bit.

What should you play when the guitarist is playing his falseta?
Aren't you the guitarist?

Also cantes aren't songs? Isn't the literal translation of cante, song?
Or are you meaning they aren't complete songs? But then I don't see where metalhead suggests otherwise?

Moises app! That sounds brilliant though. Will try that.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2024 19:12:57

metalhead

Posts: 126
Joined: Apr. 15 2023

RE: Question about accompanying cante (in reply to metalhead)

never mind i figured it out, just playing my own one falseta that isn;t too long or too short woulld also suffice

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2024 20:03:54

orsonw

Posts: 1941
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Question about accompanying cante (in reply to Stu)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stu
Also cantes aren't songs? Isn't the literal translation of cante, song?
Or are you meaning they aren't complete songs?

Depending on performance or artist letras can be mixed, omitted, added, changed etc... different letras sung together can have no connecting narrative.
The melody doesn't happen for a set number of compas, the melody isn't fixed relative to the compas, the music can vary under the same melody, the lyrics can be changed, melody interpretation/embellishment can vary, key is highly variable depending on singer, tempo is highly variable etc.. Even if specifying down to a style within a palo e.g. solea Frijones 2, that doesn't fix any of the above.
Compared to songs which are written and arranged, have set lyrics and musical structure, (usually a typical tempo/key), etc..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2024 20:48:51

Piwin

Posts: 3565
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Question about accompanying cante (in reply to metalhead)

I just strum the underlying chords if they're obvious enough. Otherwise just rhythm while muting the strings. In practice I end up doing a mix of the two lol. seco, seco...oooooh there's an F there!.... F, F, oh wait that's no longer an F, seco, seco... oooh that's a G! G, G

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2024 21:30:31

Ricardo

Posts: 14845
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Question about accompanying cante (in reply to metalhead)

It is challenging to do play a long with the recording because compression sometimes equalizes the sound in a way, the bass compas or beat is obscured by the very loud counterbeat accentuations. I recommend first just scratch rhythm to any cante track and make sure you are aware of any tempo deviations, so that when you start playing, you don’t get lost. Falsetas are just math as you have learned, and the singer is supposed to wait for your falseta whatever length it is (doing very long variations is somewhat disrespectful in a live performance, save those for your solos). I again recommend just keeping time through those so you get a sense of the length etc.

In the end you need to learn with a live singer because after you learn some standards with a recording, you have to learn about how they can have variations.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2024 22:24:58

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 660
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Question about accompanying cante (in reply to Stu)

cante is sing , song is cantiga , like cantar (cante) is to sing , or like canzone is cantiga or canção or song

good question , is a jam or impro still a song?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2024 12:18:05

Ricardo

Posts: 14845
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Question about accompanying cante (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manitas de Lata

cante is sing , song is cantiga , like cantar (cante) is to sing , or like canzone is cantiga or canção or song

good question , is a jam or impro still a song?

Not sure what this jibber jabber is about. Song is “cancion”. A sung melody in the flamenco genre is “ un cante”. It is also an umbrella term for flamenco singing in general, where the letras or coplas are not related, often attached to individual cantes (melodies). A “cantante” is a person who sings canciones. A “cantaor” is someone who sings cantes flamencos. When non-traditional melodies and letras or coplas are incorporated into a palo (flamenco song FORM, not “song”), it is called “cuple”. Cante is often divided between cante jondo or cante grande (synonomous), and cante Chico (lighter themes, or faster festive tempos). The “macho” is a specific cante that is used to “rematar” a group of cantes of a certain style. (For example joaquin 3 of Solea de Alcala). When you have an orthodox full performance of cante por solea, you don’t think of it is a “song” or cancion…it is as stated “cante por solea” or “Soleares”. People that constantly refer to “flamenco song” wrongly believe this is folk music.

The term “cante Gitano” is wrongly assumed to be a specific group of cantes, but in reality is simply meant to distinguish when a performer is gitano vs. not gitano. “Cante payo” is not a separate thing in other words, or would be considered derogatory of the performance. Cante Andaluz is sometimes used as an umbrella for Fandango and fandango subset cantes, yet does not imply gitano or payo. However, before the term “cante flamenco” or even “flamenco” was a public term, “cante gitano” might have been synonymous. For example, in George Borrow Bible in Spain (1838), he meets a female prison warden’s daughter (carcalera) who plays the guitar and was “Cantando á la gitana”, which she does all night. She (from Toro) learned this from a boyfriend from Andalucia she said. The collective term in place of “flamenco” genre was “Los del Afición”, so it seems. In Estebañez Calderon (same year) he observes “cantador” for the singer rather than “cantante”. The idea of the letras of Romance, as observed and still done today, is that there is a relationship that tells a story. However, the music that is used functions just like song FORM, rather than cancion, so is generally thought of as a medieval precursor to the flamenco palos. See the recent posts of Villancico by Norman Kliman.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 12 2024 15:20:14