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Flamenco defined by law to keep Andalusia in step with history
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Paul Magnussen
Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)
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 Flamenco defined by law to keep Anda...
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From today’s Times:
For some, the beauty of Spain’s folkloric flamenco dance is ineffable. For the authorities in southern Spain, however, defining the tradition has become key to preserving its national heritage.
The Flamenco Law, which has been passed in a vote in the parliament of Andalusia, the genre’s heartland, will attempt to define flamenco and incorporate its study in the southern region’s schools in order to stop the dance from straying too far from its roots.
“The law establishes a legal framework for flamenco for its protection, conservation and the promotion of knowledge about it, ensuring its transmission to future generations,” Arturo Bernal, the government’s culture councillor who oversaw the drafting of the legislation, told The Times. “Introducing it into schools does not mean evening classes or some such but making it a fundamental part of the curriculum as part of our identity, culture and history.”
Purists have long feared for the tradition’s future, raising concerns about modern fusions and it becoming chiefly the preserve of tourist audiences, while its practitioners have lamented a lack of government help.
The precise definition of what constitutes flamenco has been a matter of debate for at least a century. The new law attempts to settle the question of its definition, placing the influence of Andalusia and gitanos, or gyspies, at its centre, describing it as a “cultural manifestation and genuine artistic language of popular roots, with an important contribution of the gypsy people and the historical influence of other cultures”. It adds that it is a “symbol of Andalusia, its cradle, even though it has links with other regions”.
[etc.]
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/url-flamenco-defined-spanish-culture-2023-8p5ds0dn9
P.S. Sorry about the duplicates: I was getting an error reported when I tried to post, so I kept retrying, not realising that the original had gone through.
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Date Apr. 12 2023 19:36:57
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Flamenco defined by law to keep ... (in reply to Paul Magnussen)
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The attempt to define flamenco by law is absurd on the face of it. Can anyone imagine an attempt in the US to define jazz by law? To define the Blues by law? To define folk music by law?
Whatever direction flamenco may take in the future, no serious person can think it is going to remain within the parameters defined by some law debated and passed by a group of Andalusian legislators, most of whom couldn't define flamenco, other than in a manner that will preserve it in amber. To think young people are going to embrace flamenco, when it has already lost much favor with them, because of legislation mandating it be in the school curriculum is laughable.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Apr. 14 2023 0:52:09
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kitarist
Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
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RE: Flamenco defined by law to keep ... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
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quote:
There are several newspaper articles though, in the likes of El Pais and El Diario de Sevilla. Just Google La Ley del Flamenco.
Thank you, Richard! (Also addition of English translation below the images)
So this here seems to be the 'progress of bills' page for that particular Bill "Proyecto de Ley Andaluza del Flamenco", Bill no. 12-22/PL-000006 :
https://www.parlamentodeandalucia.es/webdinamica/portal-web-parlamento/actividadparlamentaria/todaslasiniciativas/busquedaavanzada.do?numexp=12-22/PL-000006
From there, I see towards the end (actually included in a few bulletins, but going with the latest) "Boletín Oficial del Parlamento de Andalucía", no 147 , a pdf of 101 pages, here:
https://www.parlamentodeandalucia.es/webdinamica/portal-web-parlamento/pdf.do?tipodoc=bopa&id=171835
The Bill's table of contents is pp. 3-5; description of motives is on pp. 6-9; the text of the Bill itself on pp. 10-27.
The Bill, now law, has 35 articles (and five additional provisions). Article 3 is "definitions", pp.10-11, of flamenco and other relevant terms, as shown in the images below. The flamenco definition is of the self-evident type, as are others, so nothing much to object about but also not very informative if one does not already know what is being referred to (which is probably ok, especially given the law's purpose).
Curious to hear what people think, not just of the definitions but of the rest of the law. I am slow through google translate..
EDIT: Summary of law auto-translated into English below. The entire text of the law in English uploaded here (pdf).
quote:
This law is structured into thirty-five articles divided into seven titles, five provisions additional provisions, a transitory provision, a repealing provision and two final provisions.
The preliminary title, «General Provisions», includes the object of the law, as well as its scope of application and purpose, also incorporating the definition of a series of fundamental concepts related to flamenco.
Title I, «Competences and administrative organization», deals with the bodies and entities that exercise the powers of the autonomous community in matters of flamenco, as well as the powers of local entities, in accordance with the provisions of the regulatory legislation of the local regime and always respecting the autonomy of said entities.
Title II, «Ordination and planning in flamenco matters», includes in its chapter I a catalogue of actions that may be carried out to achieve the general objectives of the law, differentiating between those activities that may be carried out in matters of management and in matters of promoting flamenco. Chapter II of this title II provides that the Governing Council approves a General Strategic Plan for Flamenco, which will constitute the basic and essential instrument in the management of flamenco resources in Andalusia, and also includes the minimum content that said planning instrument.
Title III, «On the organization of activities and entities in the field of flamenco», stresses the importance of flamenco clubs, associations, foundations and other entities such as Andalusian communities abroad or their federations and coordinators, establishing in general that the Ministry responsible for culture and historical heritage will promote collaboration with them. This title III ends with a chapter III in which the Andalusian Flamenco Registry is created, as a public administrative registry for the knowledge, publicity and management of professionals and entities that carry out activities related to flamenco in Spain, Andalusia.
Title IV of the law, «Of the teaching of flamenco», which establishes that the educational Administration will promote the presence and knowledge of flamenco in the different stages of non-university education, is especially relevant. Therefore, with this regulation, a pending subject is addressed, such as the presence and knowledge of flamenco in all stages of the teaching. Research on flamenco as a genuine cultural and artistic manifestation of Andalusia will also be promoted at the university level and in the European Space for Higher Education, with the collaboration of Andalusian Universities, the Higher Conservatories of Music and Dance and other entities dedicated to research.
Title V, «Of the flamenco heritage complex», includes a series of provisions and measures for the protection of said heritage complex, and the assets that comprise it may be registered in the General Catalog of Andalusian Historical Heritage, individually or collective.
Title VI «Of the diffusion of flamenco», includes a chapter related to the promotion of flamenco outside of Andalusia, both nationally and internationally, and its dissemination in the media; as well as another referring to the dissemination of flamenco through information technologies.
Finally, as regards the content of the additional provisions, it is worth highlighting those relating to the registration of flamenco as an Asset of Cultural Interest in the General Catalog of Heritage Historical Andalusian, as well as the declaration of November 16 as Flamenco Day in the scope of the Autonomous Community of Andalusia.
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_____________________________
Konstantin
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Date Apr. 14 2023 1:33:17
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: Flamenco defined by law to keep ... (in reply to kitarist)
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Thanks kitarist. I got as far as the Boletin, clicked without effect on the first few blue headings, and gave up. Prompted by your post I scrolled further down, and the links started working.
I'm unclear whether this edition of the Boletin presents the final version of the bill, or is the version presented to the floor for final debate and possible amendment. I'm pretty sure the conclusions I draw are valid either way.
Article 10 establishes the Comisión Asesora (Advisory Council) of flamenco, constituted by a selection from list of entities defined in Article 3, kitarist's post above.
These are all groups or associations which might be expected to have actual flamenco expertise. Individual artists are not included. One would hardly expect a nominally democratic government to undertake such a selection.
Establishing the membership, rules and operation of the Comisión are delegated to the executive branch of the government of the Autonomous Region of Andalucia, in accordance with the Ley 9/2007.
My limited experience with Spanish government, and the unanimous opposition to the Ley del Flamenco by the minority parties in the Parliament of Andalucia, lead me to suspect that you have to be in on the deals behind the scenes to know what to expect.
RNJ
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Date Apr. 14 2023 3:47:18
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: Flamenco defined by law to keep ... (in reply to estebanana)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: estebanana
They’ll probably do what inevitably happens when a skill is regulated. A licensure commission will be established and money will get involved. The government will make money by regulating who gets deemed an official teacher and a flamenco federation will be established with different grade/ranks. The process evolves into a pipeline from school to stage wherein the kids with money gain access and those who can’t pay to matriculate up through the pipe, non affluent kids will get left out.
It reeks.
Fiona Hill was one of the highest ranking members of the Administration to testify stoutly against Trump in his second impeachment. After that she wrote "There's Nothing For You Here: Finding Opportunity in the 21st Century."
The main title is a quote from her father, whose employment at the coal mines ended when they closed. Her mother was a nurse. Through her mother her father found work as a janitor in a hospital. Her father advised Fiona to do everything she could to get a good education. It was the only path out of the stagnant backwater of northern England for a bright, ambitious girl.
She succeeded. She excelled at the local public schools, and attracted the support of the local Labor Member of Parliament. He and other relatively successful local people cued her in to sources of support, and spoke up for her.
She was invited to apply to Oxford. She didn't know that the invitation to dinner was part of the interview process, so she ate with friends instead. All the rich kids knew, because that was something their family or friends told them. But nobody told Fiona, so she missed the dinner and didn't get into Oxford.
She made into Saint Andrews instead, earned high honors, spent time in Russia, as an exchange student. She came to the USA and got a Masters and a PhD from Harvard.
She was an intelligence analyst under G.W. Bush and Obama, and wrote the book on Vladimir Putin (up until 2014); "Mr. Putin: An Operative in the Kremlin." Later she was on the National Security Council.
Under Trump she was Deputy Assistant to the President and Senior Director for European and Russian affairs on the National Security Council.
I saw her in a TV interview after she was back at the Brookings Institution. Complimented on her accomplishments, she said, "Even with my degrees and experience, with my accent I would never have had such jobs in the British government."
Having worked for the British government as a contractor part time for several years, I nodded in agreement. As an American, they couldn't place me in their class system. I had British friends from a variety of backgrounds. But the status of each didn't necessarily depend upon their abilities, knowledge or experience.
By the time of the interview Fiona had been in the USA for a long time. Her accent didn't seem all that strong to me, but an astute Englishman no doubt could have put her birthplace within 50-mile radius.
"There's Nothing For You Here" recounts the many obstacles in the path of a poor girl with a bad accent from a backward part of England, and how she overcame them, with the help of people and institutions.
The last couple of chapters of her book are devoted to summarizing the British institutions where a girl from a bad place, with a bad accent, but a sharp mind and ambitious disposition could find support. She contrasts this with the relative lack of such institutions in the USA, leading to even greater difficulties for disadvantaged youth in this country.
RNJ
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Date Apr. 14 2023 6:15:29
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: Flamenco defined by law to keep ... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
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I haven't known well any flamencos or toreros,but I've met a few. I have read books like "...Or I'll Dress You in Mourning" and "Seeking Silverio," which detail the rise of figures like El Cordobés, Don Antonio Chacon and Javier Molina from the depths of poverty to the highest levels of artistic and financial success.
Their rise was enabled by the fact that both arts are entirely outside the established social order. Everyone who can afford an entrada can become an aficionado de toros, but a banderillero can't marry the daughter of the Duchess of Alba.
Even a matador could do so only after he had become a world famous millionaire. It may have helped that he was the grandson of Antonio Ordoñez, and that since at least the 18th century the successive Duchesses of Alba haven't had to give a sh1t about what anybody thinks.
Chacon sang for the King and Queen, but only after he had become internationally famous, made millions--and gave most of it away.
None of these men had a prayer to be a lawyer, a doctor, a professor or a politician, or even a school teacher or a shop keeper, but there were no societal barriers to their fame as artists. There was only the hard work of becoming grandes figuras.
The corrida is highly corrupt. There have been concursos del cante where everybody knew the fix was in. But is the Junto de Andalucia going to straighten this out? Or is it just going impose more barriers to rising from the round below the lowest rung on the social ladder?
RNJ
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Date Apr. 14 2023 7:33:44
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Flamenco defined by law to keep ... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan
I haven't known well any flamencos or toreros,but I've met a few. I have read books like "...Or I'll Dress You in Mourning" and "Seeking
The corrida is highly corrupt. There have been concursos del cante where everybody knew the fix was in. But is the Junto de Andalucia going to straighten this out? Or is it just going impose more barriers to rising from the round below the lowest rung on the social ladder?
RNJ
Flamenco is already or has been run by different entrepreneurs, but the pecking order has been largely based on merit of the ability of the artists. As long as there is a public that wants to see flamenco and that public has high standards regarding who they want to patronize, things will be fine. The trouble will come when the public interested in flamenco will not be able to distinguish high quality art from blending flamenco with other forms or simply bad or mediocre dancing.
I’m not a dancer or a very good guitar player, but I’ve spent enough time with high level dancers to know good from great. As long as the public has a critical mass of people who understand that, it’s good. Is making art part of a governmental system of judgment on aesthetics and quality a good idea? Can government even handle the stuff on its plate right now?
In the US the entrance of academia, government and the works of art held in perpetuity for the public hasn’t overall been good for art. There are collections in museums that are held for the public to view and enjoy, but curation and the burden of museum education programs has mucked up a lot of intentions in how art is presented.
In many ways academia and museums have become ‘therapeutic institutions’ ; they don’t serve artists and the public as much as they have become venues for social studies education. The art shown has to serve an ideological purpose that the museum is trying to perpetuate, rather than the art being the main event.
The socially correct application of the resources of the museum become political, and in doing so limit or misinterpret or modify the intent of the artists work. A case in point was the postponement of a retrospective of Philip Guston paintings because the images of hooded figures ( criticism of the KKK by Guston) were included in the exhibition. This was thought to be too controversial by the therapeutic aspect of the museum, and it was postponed.
It’s a kind of self censorship in the museum and academic settings where what should be merit based by talent art is suppressed because the institution is acting as if art were democratically created. Art isn’t democratic, it talent based made by those who would risk an uncertain life based on making art.
It as if the academic or museum setting awards everyone a participation trophy for what would otherwise be an outlaw life of being an artist by challenging the idea of institutions and individual creativity.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Apr. 14 2023 8:01:26
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Flamenco defined by law to keep ... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
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quote:
None of these men had a prayer to be a lawyer, a doctor, a professor or a politician, or even a school teacher or a shop keeper, but there were no societal barriers to their fame as artists. There was only the hard work of becoming grandes figuras.
And none succeeded as a result of government defining what is art and what is not. Ah, for those halcyon days of Stalinist Socialist-Realism, when the Soviets defined "art" and one either adhered to the mandated strictures or one was at best cast out of the group and at worst shot.
While the penalties will probably not be as severe as they were in the USSR for non-conformance, in the case of the Andalusian strictures mandating what is flamenco and what is not, the result will probably be the same as it was with Socialist-Realism, or for that matter in any case where governments get involved in defining "art": Mediocre art geared to the lowest common denominator.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Apr. 14 2023 12:53:23
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Ricardo
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Flamenco defined by law to keep ... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan
quote:
ORIGINAL: kitarist
quote:
Article 10 establishes the Comisión Asesora (Advisory Council) of flamenco, constituted by a selection from list of entities defined in Article 3, kitarist's post above.
These are all groups or associations which might be expected to have actual flamenco expertise. Individual artists are not included.
I think it does include individual artists (who are professionals), as it refers to representatives from the entities/persons listed in article 3(i) "Flamenco professionals and cultural industries", among others, and in 3(i) it says these are "Natural or legal persons who carry out their professional or business activity in the field of flamenco..." - so it includes individuals. IMO.
You're right.
RNJ
They refer to groups which are Peña clubs, festival organizers, tablao operators, etc., as legit organizations that promote flamenco. And these groups will eventually be managed by a “ministry” called Andalusian Flamenco Registry. All those group of course have certain specific ARTISTS involved with the decisions made, usually by local hero associations, so a very personal connection to Individual Artists. I could imagine the “ministry” situation causing problems, despite the constant use of “autonomy” in the language.
About education, in USA, I could imagine the ridiculousness of forcing pre-University level students to learn about and engage with the history and culture of Hillbilly Bluegrass and Gangster Rap in the classroom. That is basically how the Spaniards view flamenco unless they are in the region or personally involved. I could imagine tiny ELECTIVE classes for the upper class men that are interested in the subject. But it will be small and fringe, so no need for big funding or something.
Last thing I want to say, is Flamencology has to be for University level stuff only, and again, I am sure it already has its place including funding etc., in which ever university wants to offer it. At the same time I find it Ironic that the flamencology “community”, will have some legal say in how things will be conducted via this law or being part of that ministry, when they can’t even explain the word “flamenco” in context, and consider the origins of the music to be the result of a huge cultural melting pot, where suddenly out pours these perfectly defined formal structures in the late 1800s. No offense to any, but I don’t feel they are at a place of understanding where they can be dictating how artists will function.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Apr. 14 2023 15:37:47
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