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RE: Can you correct a too soft pulsacion?
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Ricardo
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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 RE: Can you correct a too soft pulsa... (in reply to Echi)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Echi
Not only in Spain really.
I don't understand why in USA the concept (which in many places is considered as something obvious) is so controversial.
When you order a flamenco guitar to a maker in Spain they'll ask you if you have any preference in terms of "pulsacion" of the guitar ... anyway. Obviously you can survive also without questioning what is this and that's ok.
It is not controversial. It is “action” in USA, as demonstrated by Amalia Ramirez. Always was, in Spain apparently. She measures the “pulsation” at the 12 fret in millimeters, and adjusts the bone saddle to change the pulsation, sticking to “standard pulsation” in general. The controversy came from Anders, a Scandinavian living in Spain, who said explicitly that pulsation is NOT ACTION, and so many agreed with him, and guys like me left scratching our heads WTF? For a long time. I tried hard long ago to believe him, or understand him at least, and not being a builder assumed it was a “thing”.
Over time I realized that people sometimes believe in a universal setup, so the concept of “low bridge” is the same as “low action”, and this is not the case. So now, we have the story above how the bracing was changed when the back came off (I thought the back locks in the neck angle when it gets glued?), several times, and the words “soft and hard” as in the way we use the word “action” after all, came back into play confusing the issue. So we have to believe that the action was not affected by the back coming off and back on, and that only the bracing made a guitar hard to play? Like estebanana its time for a fork in my head. 
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Date Dec. 28 2022 10:14:38
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n85ae
Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
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RE: Can you correct a too soft pulsa... (in reply to Echi)
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If you're not obsessed with terminology :) ... And you are brave these kind of things like "pulsation" are likely fixable. Just need to
pop the back off and rework it from the inside. Probably not a good idea with a really expensive guitar, but if it's a guitar you plan
to keep and it doesn't play well, why not? A poor playing guitar is basically trash otherwise.
I suppose if you have to do it twice you'll burn in Hades, but it's a valuable lesson. A lesson you won't learn by talking, or arguing
on a forum since obviously it's a sin. These internet forums are loaded with people who are always telling you why things are
impossible, and the shame is a lot of people who have valuable opinions leave because of it.
There are a few lurkers out here that make a hobby of turning bad guitars into good guitars. It's doable, don't let them tell you it can't be
done. Not everybody who works on guitars builds them from scratch, there's a lot of fun in the challenge of taking some old beater
guitar and seeing if you can't make it into a good guitar. I have a couple really nice guitars that were complete garbage which look
and play nicely now because I wasn't afraid to take them apart and work on them.
quote:
To me, top stiffness/ string stiffness feel was completely obvious when I sanded the braces on my guitar because I thought it was too stiff and it definitely took the tension down. The sound also changed for the worse slightly - but the guitar feels good (to me). The bass stings are now darker and deeper, trebles less bright, less balanced. I regret doing it but it was a learning experience
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Date Dec. 28 2022 17:00:40
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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RE: Can you correct a too soft pulsa... (in reply to JasonM)
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quote:
I regret doing it but it was a learning experience
It’s funny. I was really disappointed with one of my earlier guitars, a negra. I showed it to my first teacher who, not being one to pull any punches when it comes to me, pronounced it to sound like a piece of crap, and I had to agree. So, I took it home and worked on the braces through the soundhole and the guitar was transformed. It was pretty dramatic, actually. I brought the guitar back to my first teacher and he was astounded and said it was now a really good guitar.
That guitar ended up being owned by a gitano flamenco player in Granada. He still has it and he still loves it. I’ve seen it pop up in numerous videos and pictures on the internet over the years in the hands of some pretty famous players, but it’s still in the possession of the original owner.
Thing is, with what I know now, I might never have messed with that guitar. I have a sneaking suspicion it ultimately would have been a better flamenco guitar if I had left it alone. But it does have a certain velvety quality to the notes that’s pretty beguiling, so who knows?
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Date Dec. 28 2022 17:05:59
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: Can you correct a too soft pulsa... (in reply to Ricardo)
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Maybe the confusion partly arises from the definition of the word “pulsación” itself. The Diccionario of the Real Academia Española gives various definitions. The only applicable one is
pulsación: 1. f. Acción de pulsar.
“Pulsar” also has several definitions, but the applicable one is: 2. tr. Tocar, palpar, percibir algo con la mano o con la yema de los dedos.
“To touch, to perceive something via the hand or the fingertips”
But the “action” of a guitar is a measurement, not a perception.
I have never asked a native Spanish guitarrero what “pulsacion” means. Amalia implies it means the height of the strings at the 12th fret. I have discussed, or asked for a specific string height while conversing in Spanish with skilled luthiers, but I don’t remember the word “pulsación” ever coming up.
The guitar sellers at Solera Flamenca regularly distinguish “action” from”pulsación” with the stock phrase “ La pulsación de esta guitarra flamenca es media y la altura de cuerdas en diapasón y selleta muy equilibrada, lo que aporta al guitarrista una gran comodidad en ambas manos.” The pulsacion is described as “media” on instrument with actions ranging from 2.2 to 3.0 millimeters.
Sometimes the pulsación is described differently, while the action is given as the same in the CARACTERÍSTICAS TÉCNICAS. “ Esta guitarra tiene la tan apreciada pulsación “de rebote” en la mano derecha combinada con una suavidad espectacular en la mano izquierda, consiguiendo el “instrumento perfecto” para pasar horas y horas tocando sin cansarse y con una agradable sensación de facilidad.”
Many in this thread agree that there is more to the feel of the strings by the right hand than the setup of the guitar. So do I. At least a couple of well known American luthiers have used the word “pull” to denote the right hand perception.
RNJ
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Date Dec. 28 2022 20:26:33
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