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Posts: 6447
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
I have maybe the first? Anders broken olive wood rosette on my blanca. I like it because it came from a stack of olive firewood (leña) which is so much a part of life in Andalucía, cutting it up with a chainsaw, drying it out for year in the garage and the smell from the estufa de leña is unforgettable. Not that I will be burning my guitar
It's a bit off-topic but here is a little story from my life in Granada, 2005:
Anders gave me a wood-burning stove for the winter - this is my only heating for a 5 bedroom house but he assures me it is a good one.
Having installed it and sealed the fireplace around the chimney of the stove, I go in search of wood.
I went to see my friend, Miguel:
"Neccesito mucho leña para mi estufa" "I have 900,000 Kgs" "I need half of that"
"Half of 900,000 Kgs!" "Sorry, I thought you said 90 Euros for a 1000 Kg. My Spanish is crap" "No, it's 250 Euros for 1000 Kg" (that is a metric tonne) "OK, I need half of that" "A trailer full?" "Sure"
"My trailers are the size of trucks" "Umm, maybe I need to see 500 Kg of firewood" "Maybe I need to see your stove" "Sounds fair"
"Remind me in November" "Why?" "Because that is when it gets cold, unless it rains before then" "OK"
He also speaks French, but that would make things worse. I have no idea where this leaves me but it'll work out. It always does.
I blocked the chimney with wood, which was not a good idea as it caught fire one night and I had to replace it with another piece, covered in aluminium foil.
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Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest
RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to estebanana)
This is more of a general question, straying from the original topic, but I really like the look of certain rosettes before they’ve been covered in polish or shellac. There’s a more muted, delicate look to the colors before the finish is applied, after which the colors get darker and shinier (duh, I know).
Would it be at all practical go really light with the finish over the rosette, or is it essential that that area gets a good coating to protect things. Would a lightly finished rosette be prone to having the “tiles” chip out, etc?
RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to Escribano)
The rosette needs a modicum of finish, but you could also make it with flat grain from light colored woods. Or you could cover the rosette with a very matte finish which does not change the color so much. Or wax it with cabinet wax.
The idea of only using a few wash coats of shellac on the whole top appeals to me too for some guitars. Finish has a damping effect which calms down some of the 'noise" in a top, but I think that also tends to go away somewhat with time, oxidation skinning the surface of the wood and body oil.
RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to Escribano)
Here's one similar to Anders'. Natural wood rosette, as they are often called, as opposed to "Spanish rosette" This one was made with spalted maple wood. Walking along the beach in Oregon, by the crashing waves of the Pacific, stepping on.....the rosette material! Pieces of driftwood. The black veining is caused by a fungus.
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RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to Escribano)
Having made enough guitars and rosettes and knowing how much work it is I find something to like about all of them. I also went to art school for four plus years and then a masters program in sculpture so I've sat through countless critques and am fairly unmoved by it. :)
Posts: 6447
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to Peter Tsiorba)
quote:
Natural wood rosette, as they are often called, as opposed to "Spanish rosette" This one was made with spalted maple wood. Walking along the beach in Oregon, by the crashing waves of the Pacific, stepping on.....the rosette material! Pieces of driftwood.
That's what I like, the story behind the material I guess. The provenance. I also like the idea of silver wire against ebony, but perhaps that would be too bling and tarnish, needing cleaning which might stain the wood?
RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to Peter Tsiorba)
quote:
The black veining is caused by a fungus.
Then I like fungus.
Ok, a sideway... Me and my Spanish and not Spanish builders. Here, most Spanish builders just buy 500 ready made rosettes from Korea/Japan/Russia/whereever and just glue them in one by one. Pretty mechanical way of building guitars.
Its good to see other builders doing something different than that. Its inspiring. And its very clear to me that more experimentation is going on amongst the non Spanish builders.
Posts: 22
Joined: Mar. 8 2010
From: North Wales, UK
RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to Escribano)
Hi all, newbie here.
I'm new on these forums (this is my first posting on this site) and I'm just about to embark on another first - building a blanca. I wanted to finalise the rosette design before I touched any wood, and have spent weeks just thinking about a theme. Eventually I thought about a celtic knot design, and discovered that a celtic knot is featured as a design element in the Alhambra. It's also appropriate since my screen name, Cymro, means 'Welshman' and of course I have celtic roots.
I've spent hours designing the rosette using some particularly useful software I found on the net but unfortunately I couldn't make it work in a tile less than about 30 strips wide and 24 high. I think it would be too large as a rosette at that size, and I lose too much definition if I try to make it smaller. Oh well, back to the drawing board - unless anyone knows a way round?
PS this is also my first guitar build of any kind, so I'll probably be asking lots of stupid questions in the future . . .
RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to Escribano)
Sometimes when you think too much you overthink it. It's often better to go with what you can do in the moment and let your technical abilities and thinking arrive in the same place at the same time.
Posts: 22
Joined: Mar. 8 2010
From: North Wales, UK
RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to Escribano)
I'm not sure I've been overthinking it - my brain isn't wired up that way.
I was a professional engineer for many years and once the mathematics were out of the way I'd just tell my brain what the problem was and it would supply an answer - in its own good time. I learned not to worry away at things; just sit back and wait and trust the answer. So when it told me that a celtic knot was the motif to use what was I supposed to do?
Don't forget; I'm using old technology here - none of your quad-processor Pentium stuff for me. They were still using valves (tubes to our Colonial cousins) when this CPU was made!
RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to Doitsujin)
Doit, If Peter had explained the thinking behind this rosette then it's simple appearance but intricate design would make sense to you. I commissioned Peter to build me my dream flamenco guitar. I ask for certain woods and bracing and drew up a very simple black diamond rosette I wanted, much simpler than the one you see here. The goal was to make a traditional flamenco guitar that was more suited for "simple" improvisational juerga homestyle playing as opposed to professional concert performances. I think when Peter reveals the photos of the completed guitar, the design of the rosette will be understood. From my past guitar building experience, it is easier in some cases, to make a more intricate rosette, than to hand fit a custom made one like this. Peter doesn't make standard guitar models, but rather each instrument is special for the player commissioning it in every detail. The rosette of every guitar reflects the players wishes, yet is an original work of art by Peter, sometimes appearing simple, sometimes complex.
My taste in a flamenco guitar is the same as a woman. No plain Janes, but no prostituted thing either, just a nice looking working girl. A little properly applied cosmetics goes a long way.
Another thought is look at the rosettes of Victor Manuel Diaz of Granada. Just concentric rings. One cannot get much simplifier than that. Here is a link to a Victor rosette or lack thereof on a guitar for sale for $10,000. http://www.zavaletas-guitarras.com/files/MFerguson-rz.jpg
RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to Escribano)
Necro thread!
This thread was fun and has some rosettes worth looking at again.
Here is a new one of mine in the on going mandala like mode I sometimes use. These are experimental I guess, going out side the normal Spanish formats. After I do this for a while I want to return to basic 1920- 1940 Madrid style work like Esteso and Santos. So next I feel a run old those old Madrid school rosettes coming on. In Jan 2016, back to the future.
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RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to Escribano)
quote:
Scottish Colourists
I had to look up this group, I had never heard of these Scottish Post Impressionists. Very nice stuff, thanks for pointing them out. Something new to look at.
Posts: 1708
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA
RE: Peek at a new rosette design. (in reply to Cymro)
Cymro--
I didn't realize it until now, but I guess a rosette design that I use a lot is a celtic knot. I saw, on the webpage I was taken to when I searched "celtic knot" on Google, that there are a lot of variations. In anything you do for your first guitar(s), I would recommend keeping it fairly simple so your desires don't outrun your abilities. Once you build a guitar you will probably become addicted like the rest of us and soon build twelve more, so you can increase the complexity of rosettes and purflings, etc., as you go along.
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