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One Piece Back??   You are logged in as Guest
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Gecko

Posts: 218
Joined: Jan. 2 2006
From: New Mexico

One Piece Back?? 
I have been looking for a "beater" negra, something that is structurally sound, playable, but needs minor work and is inexpensive. My reasons are to learn to do some upgrades, refinish, play around with the action, make a saddle etc. Hopefully, this would keep me out of the bars next winter. I may have found one that might suit this purpose. Allegedly it was made in Spain in the mid-sixties, solid woods (BRW & Spruce), as near as anyone can tell, and appears structurally sound, straight neck, etc., with a repaired crack on the back's lower bout. It is a 650/52 which I wanted because of my small hand size.

If you look at the picture you will see that the back appears to be one piece of wood. Is this of any major import or concern?

I know about as much about guitar construction as I do compas!



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 24 2006 10:24:14
 
Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: One Piece Back?? (in reply to Gecko) 
Hi Gecko

The back on your guitar appears to be made of two bookmatched parts joined without a central stipe in between. Some famous luthiers such as Hernandez y Aguado have built their guitars with no central stripe as well. I'm not sure if the back and sides of your guitar are made of solid wood or if they are laminated. It's very unlikely that a back of a guitar could be made of a single piece of wood unless a veneer is used. It would also not be wise to do so, because a single piece of wood will behave unequal in terms of swelling and shrinkage. A bookmatched piece in turn will have the same behavour on either side of the guitar. This makes the guitar more resistant agains demages due to temperature and/or humiditiy changes. If it would be made of one piece, it would not have a symetrical grain pattern on either side. Your guitar has a symetrical grain pattern allthough it is definitely not made of quartsawn wood. To build a guitar back without central stripe is just a matter of aestetics. It does not affect the sound of the guitar in any regards.

I hope this helps

Armando
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 24 2006 10:55:57
 
Gecko

Posts: 218
Joined: Jan. 2 2006
From: New Mexico

RE: One Piece Back?? (in reply to Armando) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Armando
Your guitar has a symetrical grain pattern allthough it is definitely not made of quartsawn wood.

Armando


Thanks Armando. Someone else also mentioned the flat-sawn woods. Does this make any real difference to anything other than the ascetics? I would think stability should not be an issue as the guitar is over 40 years old. Though that could have caused the crack, but I doubt it as almost any wood will do this here in the desert over a period of years unless special care is taken to keep it humidified and most people don't. The only older, uncracked guitar I have ever seen here that was not keep humidified is my neighbor's Guild which is built like a tank.

Thanks
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 24 2006 11:44:27
 
Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: One Piece Back?? (in reply to Gecko) 
Hi Gecko

For backs it is not that essential to have them made of quartersawn wood because the sides and back material has a relatively small influence on tone comparred to the top.
For the top it is important to use quartersawn woods. Every divergency from the perfect quarter means less stiffness and this requires to make the top and/or the bracing thicker. This in turn means more weight (tonekiller) which is to be avoided.
The likelyness of cracking depends on different factors. Big changes in humidity and/or temperature in a small period of time is poison for every stringed instrument, made of wood. However if the tonewood has been stored for many years under permanent climate conditions (50 to 55% rel. humiditiy) it is less likely to crack if is exposed to climate changes allthough this has it's limits as well. Shrinkage of wood on a ready assembled guitar is more dangerous than swelling. If a guitar is to be delivered to a customer who lives in a desert alike area with humidity around 20% or less, then it becomes very hard to avoid cracking. People who live in extreme climates desert or tropical must make sure the instruments are humidified/dehumidied in order to avoid damage. Once the guitar cracked it will most likely not crack any further because te tension is gone.

Armando
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 24 2006 13:54:53
Guest

RE: One Piece Back?? (in reply to Gecko) 
Gecko

On a back like this, it´s fairly easy to check if it´s solid wood. Look inside the guitar, and you should find a grain pattern which some how assembles the grain pattern on the outside.
Even though it´s 40 years old it can crack if treated badly.
This back is totally flatsawn and thus less stable and softer with a poorer sound production. I would never work with wood like that.

But if it sounds, has a good setup and the price is fair, it can be a good instrument

good luck
Anders

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 25 2006 7:15:08
 
Gecko

Posts: 218
Joined: Jan. 2 2006
From: New Mexico

RE: One Piece Back?? (in reply to Guest) 
I am told the sound production is excellent, with good intonation and the price, well its very low. As best as I can tell from the pictures (looking inside the sound hole) its solid wood. The setup is a little high, he says its 4mm at the 12th, but I'll measure it and see if there is enough saddle to lower it a little. I like about 3mm, and not much lower as my attach is quite strong so I only need about 1mm to work with. Supposedly, it is a 650/52 with a neck thickness at the 1st fret of about 2 cm which would be ideal for my hand size. The person who currently owns it seems like he knows guitars fairly well and was very pleasent on the phone.

Bear in mind here I'm not looking for a No. 1 grade negra, instead I'm looking for a decent "beater" that I can do some minor work and upgrades on.

I am going to go see it next Thursday, he's promised to hold it till then for me. I'll post if I decide to buy it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 25 2006 11:59:24
Guest

RE: One Piece Back?? (in reply to Gecko) 
in order to lower the action at the 12th fret 1mm, you need to lower it 2mm at the bridge.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2006 8:04:50
 
Gecko

Posts: 218
Joined: Jan. 2 2006
From: New Mexico

RE: One Piece Back?? (in reply to Guest) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders

in order to lower the action at the 12th fret 1mm, you need to lower it 2mm at the bridge.


Yeah, you're right! I forgot about that. Details, details, details.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2006 12:17:13
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