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Posts: 15722
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: ‘Easiest’ Paco de Lucia pieces. (in reply to Guest)
Mantilla de Féria is way harder physically than any single buleria falseta on Zyryab album. Especially the speed of the main theme that repeats.
If you approach flamenco as falsetas most of it is doable for any level. The problems come in with picado speed or timing that is advanced. The simplest pieces by Paco to memorize are the rumbas that have short sections with repeating chords ... unless you don’t want to improvise and learn his fast runs note for note, which is NOT the idea of the piece. Point is, you can learn the basic melodies and you are doing the song correctly, so all those rumbas are the easiest.
Posts: 2006
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: ‘Easiest’ Paco de Lucia pieces. (in reply to Guest)
I recently learned Reflejo de Luna. The only part I'm having trouble with is the tremolo but my tremolo has been neglected for many years. It's coming around. There is only one picado and it's short. The intro requires some tough stretches but I can manage when warmed up.
His fandango Aires Choqueros I also have under my fingers but the copla that is all picado is difficult for me-my picado just doesn't work at the tempo that I can do the rest of the tune at.
I think this is an issue for many of his tunes. A lot of playable stuff and 5% very very difficult.
As far as the rumbas, I'd love to be able to play Entre but without the fast picado parts, it seems fruitless. I knew a guy who used to play it and he couldn't manage the fast picados but felt it was a good piece to play anyway. I disagree. Those are the most exciting parts! If you can't play the BEST parts of the tune should you play it at all? These particular parts are so ingrained in the minds of anyone who has heard the tune.
Whenever I hear some one play it, I'm waiting for those picados and if they aren't nailed it doesn't make it for me.
I'm definitely interested in what others think are his most playable tunes.
Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA
RE: ‘Easiest’ Paco de Lucia pieces. (in reply to Guest)
I tried playing Gaujiras for awhile and I don't think it is terribly difficult except there are some big stretches which are always difficult for me, but Paco seemed to do with great ease. I might need to revisit that and see if I can improve. Samuelito does a great rendition of it.
I am going to start working on Solera which I got inspired by from watching La Caro play it. Already the barre chords at the start are trouble but I need barre chord work and will eventually get it.
_____________________________
Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena
RE: ‘Easiest’ Paco de Lucia pieces. (in reply to Guest)
quote:
A lot of playable stuff and 5% very very difficult.
As far as the rumbas, I'd love to be able to play Entre but without the fast picado parts, it seems fruitless.
Perhaps rethink this idea with respect to your audience. If you are playing for other flamenco players, then your words about the excitement and 'waiting for the picado' rings true.
If you're playing for a general audience - most have not even heard of Paco. Those rumbas are absolutely beautiful, melodic and exciting - even if you modify the fast picado parts into something you can execute, keeping the spirit of the music.
RE: ‘Easiest’ Paco de Lucia pieces. (in reply to Cervantes)
quote:
I tried playing Gaujiras for awhile and I don't think it is terribly difficult except there are some big stretches which are always difficult for me, but Paco seemed to do with great ease.
I have no trouble with stretches in it, but can't ever get that part in the middle where you have to bar fret 10 and play 2 notes across the top 2 strings clean.
RE: ‘Easiest’ Paco de Lucia pieces. (in reply to mark indigo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: mark indigo
quote:
Possibly Recuerdo a Patiño.
I wonder what is particularly "easiest" about Recuerdo a Patiño, compared to, say, Gitanos Trianeros, or Punta Unbria or Jerezana?
I am just wondering what people mean by 'easy' or 'hard' when talking about complete pieces. One way is the way rock climbing routes seem rated - the rating reflects more the hardest elements within the route rather than overall/average.
So a PdL piece might be 85% 'easy' but the picados and/or tremolos might make it 'hard' if you want to play the whole thing at tempo. If you pick and choose the easier bits, then I can see how some of his pieces can be talked about as 'easy/ier'. Or else one can say the easy and the hard bits make it 'medium' on average, but that would seem misleading to me (if one cannot properly play the hard elements).
Posts: 2006
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: ‘Easiest’ Paco de Lucia pieces. (in reply to joevidetto)
I've done a lot of gigs but I'm pretty much done performing. So my audience is me and sometimes my dog.
The dog doesn't care if the picados happen but I do. I did at least a thousand rumba gigs in the 90's and never played Entre dos Augas. I'd have felt like a hack when the fast picado parts came and I couldn't play them. If I could have played them I'd have played that tune every night.
The tune kills if you have the chops. I've heard tons of people play it without the tough parts-just doesn't work IMO.
quote:
ORIGINAL: joevidetto
quote:
A lot of playable stuff and 5% very very difficult.
As far as the rumbas, I'd love to be able to play Entre but without the fast picado parts, it seems fruitless.
Perhaps rethink this idea with respect to your audience. If you are playing for other flamenco players, then your words about the excitement and 'waiting for the picado' rings true.
If you're playing for a general audience - most have not even heard of Paco. Those rumbas are absolutely beautiful, melodic and exciting - even if you modify the fast picado parts into something you can execute, keeping the spirit of the music.
RE: ‘Easiest’ Paco de Lucia pieces. (in reply to Guest)
You guys desperately want to play the whole piece of someone else? Maybe I'll learn some interesting part of the piece. But not the whole one. No time no interest. It's not my goal. How about playing chords instead and throwing here and there some cool sounding falsettas you already know? It will happen improvised and sound like the cante accompaniment without singing. Is something wrong with my approach or is it ok? What do you guys think?
RE: ‘Easiest’ Paco de Lucia pieces. (in reply to Guest)
quote:
I spend most of the time practicing basic compas and improving my technique. I still don’t know all the main palos yet so that’s my priority at the moment. It would be nice to learn a complete piece though and sometimes you need a break from serious study and just do something purely for fun.
Why do you want to start with solo flamenco? I'd start with cante accompaniment and play along with it. At this early stage I can even say I'll never try to learn modern flamenco compositions. I'll go for old school solo flamenco instead.
Posts: 15722
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: ‘Easiest’ Paco de Lucia pieces. (in reply to Guest)
quote:
ORIGINAL: rasqeo77
quote:
ORIGINAL: devilhand Why do you want to start with solo flamenco? I'd start with cante accompaniment and play along with it. At this early stage I can even say I'll never try to learn modern flamenco compositions. I'll go for old school solo flamenco instead.
I’m not. I’m starting with compas and technique. Next step will be accompanying dancers. I don’t know any singers so learning to accompany cante isn’t a priority yet. Like I said, the solo flamenco pieces are just for fun.
In the professional world accompanying cante is very difficult ...it is actually the more advanced stage of the mental work a flamenco student does. That is why we have gazillions of falseta uploads but only a few that engage in the cante accompaniment thread. Accompanying dance does set you up for it by outlining the song forms structurally....but there are many good players for dance that don’t have experience playing for cante alone. They usually have to make music for choreographies such that the cante is specifically set, so they are not really having to “accompany” as in the singer is not improvising as normal. The distinction between the two types of singing is “pa lante”, meaning up front center stage, or “pa’ tras” meaning back behind the dancer. While the distinction is talked about for the type of singer, the guitarist is expected to know both, but in reality guitar players will gravitate to one field or the other. For example I learned through the world of baile myself, but I totally get why Moraito avoided it deliberately and stuck with only singers.
RE: ‘Easiest’ Paco de Lucia pieces. (in reply to Guest)
You could try Toques flamencos by Paco Pena. If you have local library it's worth checking there first. Our local library had one to borrow. But I bought the used one for about 3€ and now it's collecting dust somewhere here with other books like Lección De Guitarra Flamenca by Luis Maravilla and of course the famous Juan Martin's El Arte Flamenco. If some of the pieces sound good to me I'll work on them some time in the future.
Posts: 15722
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: ‘Easiest’ Paco de Lucia pieces. (in reply to rombsix)
quote:
ORIGINAL: rombsix
quote:
but I totally get why Moraito avoided it deliberately and stuck with only singers.
And why is that?
The sophistication of learning lots of cante is attractive once you understand the models. The Dance world version of cante is very boxed in and orthodox...although a few good singers have learned to move around inside that restraint and keep it interesting. Even still the job of the guitar is simpler than for cante alone.
However on the flip side, having to memorize all the breaks and weird surprise things outside of the cante sections of the dance can get VERY cerebral. In the scope of an entire show of this stuff, where making an error means stop and do it again till it is right, it can be a huge headache. Especially for someone like Moraito that has an upgraded view of cante. He admitted few dancers were willing to adapt to the the cante (improvise choreography to whatever the singers whims, or random guitar falsetas that are executed) so he just rather avoid it. I admit in my field the easy going dancers can AND prefer to not work things out and it is a joy, but quite rare.
I want to take a moment to address something also. Historically many folks are happy to give their opinion about flamenco and talk about cante and how much they like it and that it is important etc...and picado is all guitarists care about and folks prefer simple flamenco like what is done for cante, simple chords and compas short falsetas etc. On paper it is a valid arguement, we don’t NEED tons of jazzy chords and fast scales to have examplary flamenco....but we have that cante thread and it is crickets. We have Henry on there and over the years you can watch him progress in that thread by diligent work.
He started off not even finding the beat or the correct pitch to put the capo and he is now doing Mairena crossed compas perfectly with only one small error. And the error is the thing....where are all those people that stress the importance of the cante and boast about it’s simplicity guitar wise, but he had to wait MONTHS before I pointed out he missed the C chord? I mean if people are so familiar with cante it should have been easy for people to jump on and commend the guy for all that he has accomplished but point out why he was in error right there, or better yet, grab their guitar and show how it is done. But crickets.
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