Looking for a Flamenca Negra

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ddias

Posts: 73
Joined: Apr. 16 2017

Looking for a Flamenca Negra

Season's Greetings Aficionados...

It's been a funny year, but overall I've got plenty to be grateful for. The upshot of the pandemic is I'm spending a lot of time at home in Germany, and very little travelling for work. The continued lockdown means no family holidays - my wife and children are distraught at the thought of no ski season, me less so as I'm terrible skier and haven't skied for years. On the plus side, it seems hard to spend money at the moment. Hence why I feel little guilt at the prospect of a new guitar to help keep me entertained...

I'm looking for Flamenca Negra - ideally something pre-owned, as I have less patience for a brand new guitar that needs playing in and would like something that plays and feels good from the start. I have smallish hands, so 650mm scale length would suit best. Sound/style wise, open-minded but the idea of a good Conde does appeal - to contrast with the Grenada sound of my blanca.

I really like Luciano Ghosn's sound on his recent Youtube videos, I believe it's a Lester De Voe:
(Although I accept that much of his sound may be in his fingers/technique!)

Any suggestions or leads would be much appreciated. Thanks!

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 25 2020 13:45:38

AndresK

Posts: 309
Joined: Jan. 4 2019
From: Patras, Greece

RE: Looking for a Flamenca Negra (in reply to ddias)

Hello! Luciano also had Reyes, Alvarez Bernal, Lazarides and other guitars. He always sounds amazing with any guitar he plays as most pros. If you want an already played and matured guitar try mundo-flamenco.com . The guy is in Germany and he also ships worldwide. He has some top guitars available like Barba and others. He also brings De Voe but they sell very quickly. There are also other shops like this as Solera Flamenca and La Sonanta and you can always send the guitar back if you do not like it. It is the safest way to buy a used guitar as they all offer full guarantee for their guitars.

Since you are in Germany why not try Johannes Inhoffen at mundo flamenco? You can contact directly him and ask for your preference and also book a used guitar he brings in the shop in the near future.

Hope this helps.

Cheers.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2020 20:52:57

Echi

Posts: 1131
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Looking for a Flamenca Negra (in reply to ddias)

Flamenco negras are strange beasts:
If they are too bassy or sweet sounding they end up recalling a classical guitar. A good negra is never boomy.
I honestly think Conde is still the standard for negras: they have strong and compressed mids/trebles.
Ricardo Sanchis makes also extremely good negras imho. They are usually more bass oriented than Conde with edgy treebles.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2020 21:29:58

ddias

Posts: 73
Joined: Apr. 16 2017

RE: Looking for a Flamenca Negra (in reply to AndresK)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AndresK

Hello! Luciano also had Reyes, Alvarez Bernal, Lazarides and other guitars. He always sounds amazing with any guitar he plays as most pros. If you want an already played and matured guitar try mundo-flamenco.com . The guy is in Germany and he also ships worldwide. He has some top guitars available like Barba and others. He also brings De Voe but they sell very quickly. There are also other shops like this as Solera Flamenca and La Sonanta and you can always send the guitar back if you do not like it. It is the safest way to buy a used guitar as they all offer full guarantee for their guitars.

Since you are in Germany why not try Johannes Inhoffen at mundo flamenco? You can contact directly him and ask for your preference and also book a used guitar he brings in the shop in the near future.

Hope this helps.

Cheers.

Thanks Andres.

I spent an enjoyable few hours with Johannes at Mundo Flamenco last year, and had an relaxing weekend in Freiburg. It was very inspiring to see and play his collection of guitars, hear him play, and generally hang out with another guitarist. I had 3000 euros cash in my rucksack and I fully intended to come home with a new guitar, and had my eyes on a Sanchis.

In the end I came home empty handed and slightly disappointed - mainly because all the guitars I liked were 4000 euros or more! I may well visit Johannes again when it's safe to travel again...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2020 22:10:16

ddias

Posts: 73
Joined: Apr. 16 2017

RE: Looking for a Flamenca Negra (in reply to Echi)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echi

Flamenco negras are strange beasts:
If they are too bassy or sweet sounding they end up recalling a classical guitar. A good negra is never boomy.
I honestly think Conde is still the standard for negras: they have strong and compressed mids/trebles.
Ricardo Sanchis makes also extremely good negras imho. They are usually more bass oriented than Conde with edgy treebles.

Thanks Echi - any tips on which Conde models to consider?

I played (and really liked) this guitar when I played it last year:
https://www.mundo-flamenco.com/nc/en/guitars/gitarren-details.html?tx_kwmundoguitars_pi3%5BshowUid%5D=685&cHash=348f55a93baf1adc85a3a7541da0ffa6

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2020 22:14:57

Echi

Posts: 1131
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Looking for a Flamenca Negra (in reply to ddias)

I for one like the Conde Hermanos (whatever the shop) made till the end of the eighties.
The best Conde after the Faustino age are those of the Calle Felipe V even though you can find good ones also from the shops of Calle Gravina or Calle Atocha.
Ricardo Sanchis' best years are those from 90 on. Among them, the guitars from 95-2005 are those more Conde-like. The 2 sons of Ricardo have been running the shops since 2005 even though Ricardo still works here and there.
I have to say that some classical guitars made by Ricardo are perfectly suitable also as flamenco negra guitars.
I currently own a ‘64 Conde negra and a ‘90 Sanchis made with a lovely Rio. I like them both.
EDIT:
No need to say that a good luthier can build you a perfectly fine guitar: I'd like to spot Jesus de Jimenez, Javier Castano and Andre Marvi as their negra guitars are among the best I ever tried.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2020 15:30:10

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Looking for a Flamenca Negra (in reply to ddias)

I played a couple of Robert Ruck negras that were fabulous for flamenco. Just as good as Conde. One of my personal favorite guitars in my collection is Jeronimo Peña Fernandez...well it didn’t sound very flamenco until I put the La Bella 820’s on, but since then I love it. 1971, yet somehow has a youthful spirit. Here I am playing some Bach but it has that flamenco edge to the tone:

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2020 23:33:09

Goldwinghai

Posts: 215
Joined: Mar. 17 2015
From: Virginia USA

RE: Looking for a Flamenca Negra (in reply to Ricardo)

I really enjoy your playing Bach’s Chaconne.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2020 1:59:50

eccullen

Posts: 97
Joined: Aug. 14 2007

RE: Looking for a Flamenca Negra (in reply to Ricardo)

Love this version!
Love this is what it’s like in your kitchen!

I sadly let go a chance to buy a similar guitar locally.
I think Hariq Fareed got it...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2020 2:37:46

JasonM

Posts: 2051
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Looking for a Flamenca Negra (in reply to ddias)

quote:

I really like Luciano Ghosn's sound on his recent Youtube videos, I believe it's a Lester

I like it too.. But, that Neumann km184 microphone has a slightly boosted treble response “for added brilliance”.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2020 5:50:20

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Looking for a Flamenca Negra (in reply to ddias)

Haha haha hahahahaha

Folly to search for a negra. When you get old you’ll regret it and want a blanca to pass your days on your porch and the negra will just be another prize of youth and ego.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2020 16:48:31

ddias

Posts: 73
Joined: Apr. 16 2017

RE: Looking for a Flamenca Negra (in reply to Echi)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echi

EDIT:
No need to say that a good luthier can build you a perfectly fine guitar: I'd like to spot Jesus de Jimenez, Javier Castano and Andre Marvi as their negra guitars are among the best I ever tried.

Thanks Echi

Jesus de Jimenez here:
https://www.guitarrasdeluthier.com/en/product/guitar-jesus-de-jimenez-flamenco-negra/1841

Tempted to drive over to Karlsruhe to check out this Marin (even though it's beyond what I'm hoping to pay)
https://www.siccasguitars.com/shop/guitar/antonio-marin-montero-2020-flamenca-negra/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2020 16:54:28

ddias

Posts: 73
Joined: Apr. 16 2017

RE: Looking for a Flamenca Negra (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

Haha haha hahahahaha

Folly to search for a negra. When you get old you’ll regret it and want a blanca to pass your days on your porch and the negra will just be another prize of youth and ego.

Maybe so! But surely best of both world's is a good thing... I read on here some time back that it's acceptable to have multiple guitars... but not multiple wives... and if you don't like a guitar you can always change it....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2020 16:57:49

ddias

Posts: 73
Joined: Apr. 16 2017

RE: Looking for a Flamenca Negra (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

I played a couple of Robert Ruck negras that were fabulous for flamenco. Just as good as Conde. One of my personal favorite guitars in my collection is Jeronimo Peña Fernandez...well it didn’t sound very flamenco until I put the La Bella 820’s on, but since then I love it. 1971, yet somehow has a youthful spirit. Here I am playing some Bach but it has that flamenco edge to the tone:

Amazing playing! And also amazing how calm you remain with family in the background. I have to hide out in our basement to concentrate...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2020 17:01:25

JasonM

Posts: 2051
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Looking for a Flamenca Negra (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

Folly to search for a negra. When you get old you’ll regret it and want a blanca to pass your days on your porch and the negra will just be another prize of youth and ego

Actually, owning a negra is important as it’s serves as a reminder of why you like your Blanca

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2020 17:26:57

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Looking for a Flamenca Negra (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM

quote:

Folly to search for a negra. When you get old you’ll regret it and want a blanca to pass your days on your porch and the negra will just be another prize of youth and ego

Actually, owning a negra is important as it’s serves as a reminder of why you like your Blanca

Brilliant!

I skipped the owning of negra and went straight to blanca, but maybe that's because I started with classical and already have a Brazilian rosewood Anselmo Solar Gonzalez for that type of sound

_____________________________

Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2020 18:56:04

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Looking for a Flamenca Negra (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

, owning a negra is important as it’s serves as a reminder of why you like your Blanca

I see Yoda trained you well young Jedi master.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2020 0:48:33

JasonM

Posts: 2051
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Looking for a Flamenca Negra (in reply to estebanana)

His name is Grogu

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2020 16:25:18

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Looking for a Flamenca Negra (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM

His name is Grogu

Luke was the worst Jedi teacher of all time.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2020 16:44:35

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Looking for a Flamenca Negra (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Luke was the worst Jedi teacher of all time.

Yeah that’s because he kept insisting on using negra light sabers instead of blancas

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 1 2021 9:12:29