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So I decided on this Marlon Navarro flamenco negra. I've never played flamenco guitar even though I've loved spanish type music since I heard Paco de Lucia and Al DiMeola play Mediterranean Sundance over 40 years ago! So partially based on reviews I saw on this forum, and what looked like the best bang for the buck, I decided on Navarro and found this one at Memorial Music in Houston. I had played a Cordoba negra and blanca at Guitar Center and liked the sweeter warmer sound of the negra so that is what I ordered. I love this guitar! I know many of you have higher end guitars, but for a beginner at flamenco, this is more than I need from a quality standpoint. All solid spruce and palo escrito and what makes this unique for a student model is the ebony fretboard. And after playing steel string acoustics and electrics for years, I was afraid I would hate the 52mm nut width but I got used to it real fast! And nylon strings are so much easier on the fingers, I wasn't expecting that! So now I'm off to watch some good YouTube videos and learn those right hand techniques! Pictures attached.
Posts: 78
Joined: Apr. 23 2020
From: San Diego, CA
RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to Blind Dog)
Congrats on your your new guitar. The Marlon Navarros really are a good bang for the buck. Five years ago I played a similar one to yours. That one had wooden pegs, a six-hole tie-block, and did not look to have an ebony fingerboard, but it definitely had nice workmanship, looked great and was very easy to play, for both hands. Have fun opening it up!
RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to Blind Dog)
Congrats thanks for sharing. I’ve never tired one of his guitars.
Not sure if it’s the perspective of the picture but it looks like the bridge is really offset back for compensation on the bass side? Even so al that matters is if it plays in tune.
RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to devilhand)
I don't have a good way to measure the action, I guess I need to go to Home Depot and get a feeler gauge. I can tell you it feels low and I played several new classical guitars and it is lower than those. Once I can really measure I'll answer you more accurately.
RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to Filip)
I don't have any recordings yet. I do have recording equipment, but I am not a good guitar player in general and just starting flamenco, so I haven't thought about doing a recording. I'll try to do something just so you can see how it sounds.
RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to devilhand)
quote:
ORIGINAL: devilhand
Your guitar looks nice. How high is the action at the bridge and the 12th fret?
Well, I've discovered that measuring the action is not that easy. I bought some feeler gauges at Lowes and discovered they were oily when I got them home so I didn't want to use those, so I just took someone's suggestion and used stacked coin combinations. As best I can tell the action on both E strings at the 12th fret is 2.7 mm (two dimes) and 8 mm at the bridge (ruler). Probably both are off a little but close enough. Action is low enough, I wouldn't want it any lower.
RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to Blind Dog)
quote:
Well, I've discovered that measuring the action is not that easy.
The action at the 12th fret is measured from top of the fret to bottom of the string. 2.7mm is good I guess. 8mm at the bridge is also optimal.
I read on the foro bass strings at the 12th fret usually have slightly higher action than treble strings. Maybe 3mm and 2.7mm respectively. This makes sense when you think bass strings vibrate more heavily than nylon treble strings. But the action at the bridge is more important for flamenco guitars.
RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to devilhand)
quote:
bass strings at the 12th fret usually have slightly higher action than treble strings. Maybe 3mm and 2.7mm respectively. This makes sense when you think bass strings vibrate more heavily than nylon treble strings. But the action at the bridge is more important for flamenco guitars.
both action at 12th fret and action at bridge are important.
RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to devilhand)
quote:
ORIGINAL: devilhand
quote:
Well, I've discovered that measuring the action is not that easy.
The action at the 12th fret is measured from top of the fret to bottom of the string. 2.7mm is good I guess. 8mm at the bridge is also optimal.
I read on the foro bass strings at the 12th fret usually have slightly higher action than treble strings. Maybe 3mm and 2.7mm respectively. This makes sense when you think bass strings vibrate more heavily than nylon treble strings. But the action at the bridge is more important for flamenco guitars.
OK cool, I learn something new on here every day. I didn't know action at the bridge was important at all. Is too low or too high typically more of a problem? Also - I just ordered one of those string action rulers so I can really measure it accurately. Not that it's going to change anything, I just like to have all the tools! Thanks.
RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to mark indigo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: mark indigo
quote:
bass strings at the 12th fret usually have slightly higher action than treble strings. Maybe 3mm and 2.7mm respectively. This makes sense when you think bass strings vibrate more heavily than nylon treble strings. But the action at the bridge is more important for flamenco guitars.
both action at 12th fret and action at bridge are important.
Let me restate it. When it comes to lower action of flamenco guitar, we should be talking about the action at the bridge first. Not the action at the 12th fret. Because low action at the bridge already implies low action at the 12th fret. But not vice versa.
RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to devilhand)
quote:
ORIGINAL: devilhand
quote:
ORIGINAL: mark indigo
quote:
bass strings at the 12th fret usually have slightly higher action than treble strings. Maybe 3mm and 2.7mm respectively. This makes sense when you think bass strings vibrate more heavily than nylon treble strings. But the action at the bridge is more important for flamenco guitars.
both action at 12th fret and action at bridge are important.
Let me restate it. When it comes to lower action of flamenco guitar, we should be talking about the action at the bridge first. Not the action at the 12th fret. Because low action at the bridge already implies low action at the 12th fret. But not vice versa.
Devilhand,
Although your statement seems logical, it is wrong. I've measured guitars with really low action at bridge(7.2mm) but really high action at 12th fret(3.5mm). The tools I used to take these measurements are the following:
The guitar that gave this data ended up having really bad bowing problem/relief issues. I didn't end up buying do to this issue. To fix, it would need a re-fret job plus re-angling the fret board, etc..
Myself, I like guitars that have 7.5mm clearance at bridge and 2.25mm to 2.5mm bass side action at 12th fret with no string buzz or slight sizzle.
RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to devilhand)
quote:
Let me restate it. When it comes to lower action of flamenco guitar, we should be talking about the action at the bridge first. Not the action at the 12th fret. Because low action at the bridge already implies low action at the 12th fret. But not vice versa.
get a flamenco guitar, when you have owned and played a few, then you can talk about flamenco guitars...
RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to mt1007)
quote:
Myself, I like guitars that have 7.5mm clearance at bridge and 2.25mm to 2.5mm bass side action at 12th fret with no string buzz or slight sizzle.
This is exactly what I like. It’s not so easy to achieve as I discovered!. Very little wiggle room, and the top tension/string tension has to be right too. How stiff are your Devoe’s? Never played one. I read here they tend to be on the stiff side - but relative to what is the question. I like a stiffer top myself.
RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to JasonM)
quote:
ORIGINAL: JasonM
quote:
Myself, I like guitars that have 7.5mm clearance at bridge and 2.25mm to 2.5mm bass side action at 12th fret with no string buzz or slight sizzle.
This is exactly what I like. It’s not so easy to achieve as I discovered!. Very little wiggle room, and the top tension/string tension has to be right too. How stiff are your Devoe’s? Never played one. I read here they tend to be on the stiff side - but relative to what is the question. I like a stiffer top myself.
Yo Jason,
On my 93 Devoe I got 7mm clearance at bridge and 2.5mm to 2.75 action at 12th fret depending on humidity conditions. It plays like butter, very responsive guitar. It's very open sounding. I have no way to measure top stiffness but I'd have to say average stiffness for the blanca.
RE: My new student Marlon Navarro negra (in reply to devilhand)
quote:
ORIGINAL: devilhand
Your guitar looks nice. How high is the action at the bridge and the 12th fret?
Just received my String Action Ruler I bought off ebay for $10. Looks like I have 9mm at the bridge, about 2.5 on the thin E string (1 string) and 2.75 on the high E (wound #6 string). All I know is it plays great and sounds great, especially for a student guitar.
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