Hard tension to medium tension

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gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

Hard tension to medium tension

Hi All,

Doe anybody know how much you can loose the strings to make hard strings feel like medium strings?
For instance A from 440Hrz to 430Hrz, Or visa versa?

(I know that strings are all different and the feeling of the thickness is different on hard and medium strings).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2020 21:58:28

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Hard tension to medium tension (in reply to gerundino63)

Tuning down to 432 gives you about 3.6% lower tension, which is about the same difference as in between different-branded-tension sets, at least for D'Addario.

(432/440)^2 as the tension varies as the square of the frequency.

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2020 22:23:24

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Hard tension to medium tension (in reply to kitarist)

Ah! Thanks! That was fast!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2020 22:34:17

James Ashley Mayer

Posts: 115
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Hard tension to medium tension (in reply to gerundino63)

I've tuned everything one half-step down to Eb so I could use get the action and buzz of a cejilla while still playing in the un-capoed range. It worked just fine and felt better to me than hard tension strings.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2020 16:00:57

etta

Posts: 342
Joined: Jan. 20 2010

RE: Hard tension to medium tension (in reply to gerundino63)

As we know guitars may vary in tension from day to day, week to week, depending on humidity or lack of it, etc. When tension seems too high and uncomfortable on a guitar, I tune down to "Baroque tuning", 432, and it seems to help though this could be a "placebo"effect. I like high tension strings, and a very low action will allow them to be used with better playing ease. On my guitars tuning down to 432 does not seem to effect power or tonality.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2020 16:15:51

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Hard tension to medium tension (in reply to etta)

Lately I’ve been on a search for medium to medium hard strings as a replacement for Luthier pop supreme, and to try and find that perfect tension I like on my new guitar.

For a baseline comparison I’ve been using Daddario EJ45’s as a standard Medium Tension, and looking for strings that are slightly thicker. A lot of manufacturers don’t list there specs so I’ve been measuring the diameters myself. But I’ve found that I really need a micrometer to do this properly.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2020 16:49:45

Deniz

Posts: 91
Joined: Feb. 16 2020

RE: Hard tension to medium tension (in reply to etta)

quote:

As we know guitars may vary in tension from day to day, week to week, depending on humidity or lack of it, etc. When tension seems too high and uncomfortable on a guitar, I tune down to "Baroque tuning", 432, and it seems to help though this could be a "placebo"effect. I like high tension strings, and a very low action will allow them to be used with better playing ease. On my guitars tuning down to 432 does not seem to effect power or tonality.

Interesting stuff etta, thanks for sharing it!

I noticed that some songs, f.e. Entre Dos Aguas by PdL, are somewhat off in tuning. When my guitar is perfectly tuned with a digital tuner it sounds off. As if Pacos guitar is lower-pitched.

Is that the mentioned "baroque tuning" or is there other reason to it?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2020 19:58:12

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Hard tension to medium tension (in reply to Deniz)

quote:

I noticed that some songs, f.e. Entre Dos Aguas by PdL, are somewhat off in tuning. When my guitar is perfectly tuned with a digital tuner it sounds off.

This is usually due to inattention to detail in analog-to-digital transfers. If the original is not played at the correct speed, the result is change in pitch. Faster than original speed = higher pitch; slower -> lower.

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2020 20:10:01

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Hard tension to medium tension (in reply to Deniz)

quote:

I noticed that some songs, f.e. Entre Dos Aguas by PdL, are somewhat off in tuning. When my guitar is perfectly tuned with a digital tuner it sounds off. As if Pacos guitar is lower-pitched.

this came up before, PDL's first album [fabulosa guitarra] none of the tracks i have studied are at concert pitch.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2020 22:05:01

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Hard tension to medium tension (in reply to Deniz)

quote:

As if Pacos guitar is lower-pitched.

He is tuned a little sharp.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 10 2020 7:43:39

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Hard tension to medium tension (in reply to gerundino63)

Recently I've been tuning my electric to Eb gives noticeable change in tension

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2020 17:24:41

Deniz

Posts: 91
Joined: Feb. 16 2020

RE: Hard tension to medium tension (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

He is tuned a little sharp.

Is that on purpose or because he tuned by ear?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 14 2020 20:24:46

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Hard tension to medium tension (in reply to Deniz)

quote:

Is that on purpose or because he tuned by ear?

I can't answer that definitively, but I can say that on Fabulosa Guitarra at least I have had to adjust the pitch of some tracks more than others. So it doesn't seem like he has deliberately tuned to an alternative pitch (unless he was deliberately using 3 or 4 slightly different alternative pitches for different tracks....).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 14 2020 21:27:50

AndresK

Posts: 309
Joined: Jan. 4 2019
From: Patras, Greece

RE: Hard tension to medium tension (in reply to JasonM)

Hello. All this search for the pop 20... Hope we have some luck. Do you think we should start a thread about this, like Luthier Popular Supreme 20 equivalent?

Until now the only info I have is this:
The guy that owns lordofthestrings where I buy many times my strings, says that clients that used to play Luthier now play Oasis. I did not have the chance to buy a regency set (which is nylon) they have yet (or any other Oasis).

The other info is from the Facebook of Jose Maria Bandera, that he posted some time ago and he had the Knobloch QZ nylon in normal tension, and of course he recommends them. On a comment he answered he said he had been using Luthier for many years and now this Knobloch set which has him totally satisfied.

I have not yet tried them because they seem a bit pricey to me. But will see in the future.

One last info is that someone who measured the Luthier popular 20 told me that they are higher in tension than the normal d Addario, and closer to the hard set. So maybe Ej45 for basses and Ej46 for trebles? The truth is that harder d Addarios DO NOT sound like Luthier..

Savarez new cristal have that full sound similar to Luthier but are, for some reason, slower for me. Never understood why.

I am sorry for being completely out of the subject of the original post.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 21 2020 17:53:32

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Hard tension to medium tension (in reply to AndresK)

Andreas, thanks for sharing the info! I measured the Pop supreme 20 high E string as 0.030 inches vs the EJ45 0.028. So yeah slightly thicker. LA Bella 840B is right in between at 0.029. Neither sound the same as Luthier of course.

I might give Oasis a try! I have a set of Saverez Tomatito and Knoblach to try next. I don’t think they are the QZ. Hopping they arnt good because they are expensive! I also recently tried Filipe Conde flamenco mediums and they sound similar to Luthier but the tension is closer to EJ45

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 21 2020 18:41:06

AndresK

Posts: 309
Joined: Jan. 4 2019
From: Patras, Greece

RE: Hard tension to medium tension (in reply to JasonM)

Thank you very much for that. I was thinking of La Bella as I used them for some years back in time. But I will skip that for now.

I also read somewhere else about the Felipe Conde similarity to Luthier.

Anyway, we keep on searching.. I would be very interested to hear news on the Tomatito by Savarez and the Knobloch when you try them. No hurry.

I also have EJ45 now and reminded myself how sweet and yet crisp they are. But they are no Luthier (the D Addario basses are quite powerful though, but the overall volume.. not so high).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 21 2020 22:24:19