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What kind of sanding sealer for flamenco guitar?   You are logged in as Guest
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Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

What kind of sanding sealer for flam... 
Hi guys

Just wondering what you guys are using as sanding sealer on classical or flamenco guitars, if any.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 5 2019 13:45:59
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: What kind of sanding sealer for ... (in reply to Armando) 
I use a water based paste from LMI in California. Dries quick and usually takes about 3 light coats with very little sanding.







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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 5 2019 18:11:15
 
Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: What kind of sanding sealer for ... (in reply to Armando) 
Yes, thanks Tom although i meant for a spruce top. I'm also using that porefiller for rosewood.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 5 2019 20:40:28
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: What kind of sanding sealer for ... (in reply to Armando) 
I use a shellac base, very thin for the top. Usually a couple of thin coats to seal the wood, then apply a thin color with a spray gun, then seal it with some clear coats that are sprayed, before I finish off with my French polish technique.

Take into consideration that most shellac is quite thin compared to Lacquer.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 6 2019 15:14:40
 
Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: What kind of sanding sealer for ... (in reply to Armando) 
Ok, thanks Tom for sharing your technique. I heard of weird things like eggs and other things. I think the surface of the guitar should be hardened to make a good base for the shellac. I had the problem of the shallac not being hard enough to protect the surface from scratches, although it was not actually the shellac that became scratched but the spruce underneath due to rasqueados and golpes regardless of the golpeador. Violin makers have used kali waterglass to harden their soundboards. The problem with this is that it is waterbased and the spruce will absorb too much water that will only evaporate slowly, so it may warp the soundboard. It also adds weight to the top as it is actually kind of liquid glass. Once applied the spruce gains significantly on hardness though but the additional weight is likely not wanted on a soundboard, especially on a flamenco.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 6 2019 19:49:06
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: What kind of sanding sealer for ... (in reply to Armando) 
You have to be careful with the nylon string guitar not to add anything that will cause too much damping, especially to the soundboard. Violins can tolerate a lot of damping because of the amount of energy the bowed string produces. Actually with violins, some damping is good in order to tame the sound somewhat (as I understand it).
I have seen guitars that had an egg wash of some sort applied and it can work nicely. But a shellac finish is always going to be more prone to scratches and dings than something like lacquer or varnish, just comes with the territory.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 6 2019 23:06:00
 
Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: What kind of sanding sealer for ... (in reply to Armando) 
Thanks Andy

Yes, appart of the water base, the mass that it adds is more of a problem than the damping because glass is an excellent transmitter of sound especially for the trebles. I did not use it for the current guitar because it's kind of risky. My soundboard is already on the stiff side not because it is too beefy but because the top has almost no doming which i find restricts it's free movement. So i don't want to add stuff that would enhance the treble response.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 7 2019 18:17:12
 
mango

Posts: 158
Joined: Apr. 2 2019
 

RE: What kind of sanding sealer for ... (in reply to Armando) 
What exactly is sanding sealer meant to be used for? Is it just a pore filler? I saw some people on youtube using this white powder or epoxy resin to fill pores...
Or is sanding sealer used before the real French polish just as a basic coat? When and where do you use it during your building process?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2020 13:30:01
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: What kind of sanding sealer for ... (in reply to Armando) 
quote:

Yes, thanks Tom although i meant for a spruce top. I'm also using that porefiller for rosewood.


Cypress sides/back, with spruce top is basically sealed with french polish and a little fine pumice if needed. Oil for non stick of the pad is not added until the wood has a fair amount of sealing.

You can always use a little crazy glue to seal the binding, etc, before you start the polishing process.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 29 2020 9:22:25
 
Jose Marques

 

Posts: 35
Joined: Feb. 13 2020
 

RE: What kind of sanding sealer for ... (in reply to Armando) 
honestly nothing
apply the shellac and that it, I'm talking for the soundboard or course, if is cypress or maple the same, if is rosewood or other porous wood you can try 1000 methods, I use a mix between zpoxy and if I se some small poros in the end I just use pomous, some time even rosewood I dont use nothing just shellac .

for cedar soundboard I use withe egg let dry over night, very light sand and do again the same, in cedar brings a good color ;)

if you apply some kind or varnish or lacquer and finish with shellac, in first you must test course maybe they aren't compatible, but if you are putting some of this hard finishes you are ruin the sound, in my opinion of course.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 29 2020 21:00:08
 
Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: What kind of sanding sealer for ... (in reply to Armando) 
Hi José
But isn't shellac a hard finish anyway?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 15 2020 17:34:18
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1674
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: What kind of sanding sealer for ... (in reply to mango) 
quote:

What exactly is sanding sealer meant to be used for?

Good question. Sanding sealer is for raising the grain slightly and at the same time fixing it in that state so that the next light sanding ("scuff sanding") will leave a smooth surface upon which to apply finish coats. It has nothing to do with sealing out moisture. Shellac is a good sanding sealer for a shellac finish.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 15 2020 21:21:41
 
Jose Marques

 

Posts: 35
Joined: Feb. 13 2020
 

RE: What kind of sanding sealer for ... (in reply to Armando) 
you can do several things with shellac, some of my guitars dont have pore filling even in rosewood I just use shellac.

and shellac is not hard finish by the contrary is a soft finish, that is the reason that we apply shellac in our guitars

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 15 2020 21:32:57
 
Stephen Eden

 

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: What kind of sanding sealer for ... (in reply to Armando) 
I just use a spit coat of shellac too. let it dry over night, do a light cut back and get polishing!

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Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2020 11:18:15
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