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I have been working on a Faucher transcription of Sabicas' Zapateado en Re for the last couple of weeks. At the end of the piece there is a long series of rasgueos (if I am using the term correctly). The transcription does not really give any direction for the right hand.
Earlier in the piece there appears to be a short rasgueo (measure 75) that is marked with all down strokes. I am not sure if I should use that as a guide for the end. Currently I am using an a down stroke and up stroke followed by an mi down stroke then an i upstroke. Would this be the technique typically used for this section? If not what might be suggested?
Thumb resting on 5th string: pinky, a, m and i down and i up. Quintuplets with pinky always on the beat. In the Faucher tab I have it's notated that way, with the letter "o" for pinky.
If you're pinky-averse, then just switch from quintuplets to straight 16th-notes and play it ami-i. I've wondered whether the technique Ricardo says Paco uses at the end of Impetu would work well here. Namely you use the 5-pattern oami-i but over straight 16th-notes. You'd just have to add an extra i down stroke at the end. I think it would sound nice but I still can't make that technique sound right on Impetu so
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No, I'm not pinky adverse. I can use it just as badly as my other digits. I'll have a go with it the way you have it notated. Especially since it is more straightforward.
I have seen on other Sabicas pieces (I'm on of a bit of a Sabicas kick of late) that have the double use of the same digit for rasgueos. I'm always interested in different methods.
There’s a video of Sabicas playing it on YouTube, and of course (congrats to YouTube) these days you can play it back at half speed and still get sound.
It looks to me as if he’s playing those rasgueados all down-strokes with oami: i.e. Juan Serrano style, with the pinky coming back as the i finger goes down, which personally I find difficult. But of course, there’s no reason you have to so it the same way. If you find it easier to put in an upward i, go for it.
I had another look at my transcription and it does show the right hand strokes as I described above but does not tell if they are up/down strokes.
I have been working on a continuous 4 and 3 down stroke rasgueados for a few days now. My hand does tire quickly but a good deal of that is from too much tension. After getting the hang of reloading oam/am when playing i, I feel as if I doing alright with it though we will have to see what happens with more speed. Fingers crossed! or not.
Paul, could you explain to me the difference between rasgueados and rasguoes? If there is one.
Cheers
Edit: Paul my transcription shows 5 notes per rasgueado. Not sure what the best method would be with all down strokes,
Paul, could you explain to me the difference between rasgueados and rasguoes? If there is one.
Just grammar, as far as I know: rasgueo is a noun (strumming) and rasgueado a past participle or adjective (strummed), since rasguear is to strum; although my dictionary (Cassell’s) gives rasgueado also as a noun, which is of course the way it’s used in English (in preference to rasgueo, in my experience).
quote:
Not sure what the best method would be with all down strokes,
Nor am I. Looks to me as if your choices are confined to a normal oami rasgueado with an upstroke with i either before it or after it.
Nor am I. Looks to me as if your choices are confined to a normal oami rasgueado with an upstroke with i either before it or after it.
I tried it the way it is notated in Piwin's transcription but it seems to give the section a little too much fluidity. The way as I described above seems to give it a bit more frenetic punch that I think comes across in the Sabicas rendition I listen to. I need to put more time into the technique to try to maintain that speed throughout.
Thanks for setting me straight on the definitions. I have looked at it recently and they appeared to be the same though I was not thinking about tenses. Since I am new at this I thought an authoritative voice could be an added benefit.
Tbh I've never heard of anyone doing consecutive a up and down in a rasgueado. At least for me it would mean quite a bit of unnecessary strain. If it works for you, then by all means! But don't hurt yourself!
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
Tbh I've never heard of anyone doing consecutive a up and down in a rasgueado. At least for me it would mean quite a bit of unnecessary strain. If it works for you, then by all means! But don't hurt yourself!
It's an a down/up strum and then a 2 finger down (mi) rasgueado finished by an i upstroke (repeatedly). No pain whatsoever. As I posted, at speed it sounds a bit more frenetic. The challenge is maintaining the speed consistently - but I am working on it.
could you explain to me the difference between rasgueados and rasguoes? If there is one.
Rasgueo is the same as rasgueado but written closer to how it would be spoken in Andalucian dialect form. In Andalucia, the "d" in words ending in "ado" is dropped in speech, so mercado is pronounced mercao, pescado is pronounced pescao, comprado is comprao etc. So rasgueado became rasgueao and is regularly shortened to rasgueo or rasgeo in the flamenco world. To make matters even more confusing, the "s" is also often dropped in Andalucian speech so pescado/pescao actually sounds like pecao, España sounds like Epaña and rasgeo sounds like rageo and is often written that way.
Rasgueo is the same as rasgueado but written closer to how it would be spoken in Andalucian dialect form. In Andalucia, the "d" in words ending in "ado" is dropped in speech, so mercado is pronounced mercao, pescado is pronounced pescao, comprado is comprao etc. So rasgueado became rasgueao and is regularly shortened to rasgueo or rasgeo in the flamenco world. To make matters even more confusing, the "s" is also often dropped in Andalucian speech so pescado/pescao actually sounds like pecao, España sounds like Epaña and rasgeo sounds like rageo and is often written that way.
Kind of reminds me of some Scottish pronunciations.
To make matters even more confusing, the "s" is also often dropped in Andalucian speech so pescado/pescao actually sounds like pecao
In my (admittedly limited) experience, the s isn’t quite dropped, but replaced with a sort of short exhalation, like a barely pronounced h, so that pescado becomes pehcao.
That’s extremely odd, would need to see such a thing on video. To keep things fast and fluid typically only index is done upward, and it’s really just so you can load the other fingers into position to repeat fast. There are plenty of novice self taught guys trying to bring other fingers up across the strings, but the sound is not the same. I am going to double check the sabicas video, I will be surprised if he is not doing any upstrokes with index.
EDIT:
HA HA. HA!!! Ok well, this was revealing. First of all it’s a very delicate type of rasgueado with a floating hand, so not very forceful or loud. Plus he is moving up and down the strings. I slowed it down, it’s at 3:53. He is going
pinky ring middle index, MIDDLE UP, repeat. The melody note changes in the left hand every 10 notes, so it’s two 5 tuplet groups per beat. Slow the video down and you can clearly see that middle finger pulling up and catching the strings as the index pulls up and OVER the strings instead as it repeats. He finally plants his thumb for the last group of 5 tuplets so he can land the downbeat with the single open bass string, right after the final middle finger up stroke.
That’s extremely odd, would need to see such a thing on video. To keep things fast and fluid typically only index is done upward, and it’s really just so you can load the other fingers into position to repeat fast. There are plenty of novice self taught guys trying to bring other fingers up across the strings, but the sound is not the same. I am going to double check the sabicas video, I will be surprised if he is not doing any upstrokes with index.
EDIT:
HA HA. HA!!! Ok well, this was revealing. First of all it’s a very delicate type of rasgueado with a floating hand, so not very forceful or loud. Plus he is moving up and down the strings. I slowed it down, it’s at 3:53. He is going
pinky ring middle index, MIDDLE UP, repeat. The melody note changes in the left hand every 10 notes, so it’s two 5 tuplet groups per beat. Slow the video down and you can clearly see that middle finger pulling up and catching the strings as the index pulls up and OVER the strings instead as it repeats. He finally plants his thumb for the last group of 5 tuplets so he can land the downbeat with the single open bass string, right after the final middle finger up stroke.
CRAZY!!!
The transcription I have does show a double a to start each set of 5 though I did get it off the internet for free so it is suspect. Your suspicion is correct I am a self taught flamenco beginner.
The video I have been listening to only shows an album cover but I really like that particular version and so have not really watched other renditions. However the video in your post is almost exactly like the version I have been listening to so this will help. After having watched it I think I will go with the 5 finger rasgueado (thanks Piwin) and float it too. It should be easier but will have to work on the dynamics.
The difference in sound between the m and i upstroke is likely so small that it has to be asked why is Sabicas doing it. Any thoughts?
In my (admittedly limited) experience, the s isn’t quite dropped, but replaced with a sort of short exhalation, like a barely pronounced h, so that pescado becomes pehcao.
Paul, yes that's a good way of explaining it, although the extent to which it is dropped can vary from place to place much like the use of the "seseo", "ceceo" or "distinction" forms of "s", "c" and "z". In Granada alone, all three forms exist across the province and can also be mixed so it can get really confusing.
I've lived in Andalucia for close to six years and my family have been here for around twenty and I am still (and probably always will be) discovering strange oddities plus words that only exist in certain towns. For example, I learnt "ajumeloa" (to mean drunk) in the altiplano of the northeast of the Granada province only to discover the word is only recognised in a few places!
As for that Sabicas technique, that's really interesting. I guess the middle finger upstroke helps with the speed as it can start moving as soon as the index has passed the other way making it more fluid, while the other fingers are brought back to the start position. Still working on mastering the standard 5-stroke technique myself, so I'll leave that for another day!
To keep things fast and fluid typically only index is done upward
When I first transcribed this (which is to say the ’60s, with a open reel tape recorder), I used to do amiami, the first ami down and the second up. I’ve never seen any one else do it, but it worked well for me and I found it very easy to get fast.
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