Bernal model question

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benros

Posts: 144
Joined: Aug. 27 2016

Bernal model question

Im a little bit confused about all the Bernal models and i have to estimate a good price for mine. Its a Bernal 1a Blanca from the 80‘s in very good condition. What do you think is it worth? Do anybody know, what his 1a had cost these days? Was the 1a his top model and was it built all by himself? Any information would be helpful.
Thanks!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 6 2019 11:03:38

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to benros)

Benros I have a Bernal 1999. The seller, gitano sevillano, told me his father knew Valeriano Bernal and that it was the highest quality model below individual handmade - Model F. I have no reason to doubt him including photos of it being played in the bars of Sevilla.

Despite having an Ander's made for me in 2005 I still love my Bernal guitar. Compared to an Alhambra 10f it is a total pleasure to play (not suggesting that is a great recommendation but it is the only comparison I have).

Don't get me wrong my Ander's leaves me over my dead body - but that is in a different league.

If you search here you'll find very interesting posts by a distributor of guitars Valeriano Bernal and other people who experienced these animals.

The posts in 2009 I think could be helpful.

But please post your offer in the classifieds here as I might well be interested for my niece in Madrid.

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 6 2019 13:36:10

benros

Posts: 144
Joined: Aug. 27 2016

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to flyeogh)

hey nigel, thanks for replying. what did you pay for your f-model?
i have read the posts about bernal guitars here, but there is not much information about the 1a-model. some information would be great.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 6 2019 16:08:02

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to benros)

quote:

what did you pay for your f-model?

Benros I don't think that would help you much as it was 2004 I think. I paid over the top but the deal included some lessons and the price at the time was in US dollars
which were at a poor rate to the Euro and the pound at the time. And the market was more buoyant than today. I think the amount related to 1400 Euros.

Problem as I see it is that the marketplace is not short of Bernals . An old one here in Spain:

GUITARRA FLAMENCA DEL AñO 1976 Vendo guitarra flamenca del año 1976. Hecha por Valeriano Bernal (padre). Está en muy buen estado, solo tiene pequeña grieta perfectamente reparada por el guitarrero. Tiene clavijero de madera. Es una joya con 42 años de antigüedad. El precio es de 1. 700 €. No negociables. Solo atiendo por teléfono.

And another: Guitarra flamenca valeriano bernal 1997 Tapa pino abeto aleman macizo fondo y aros cipres macizo muy comoda para las dos manos pesa muy poco envio a toda españa se puede ver y probar 650€ rebajada no negociable

And : Vendo o cambio por guitarra flamenca similar Conde, Reyes, Andalusian guitar, etc. o alguna inferior + dinero, esta guitarra flamenca de Valeriano Bernal, modelo Duende, del año 2002. Es la tope de gama en las guitarras de ciprés del constructor. Aros y fondo: Ciprés real español macizo de primera, y tapa maciza de abeto alemán. Cabeza tallada con clavijero de palillos. 3750 Euros.

But there are high end almost new Bernals for 1200 to 1900 Euros and many secondhand down to 400. Sadly I can find no mention of 1A

It seems the marketplace is wide open and you need time on your side.

ps: Of course Spain is always a bit cheaper than overseas and I live in Bernal land

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 6 2019 18:29:49

Fred Klinge

Posts: 100
Joined: Aug. 1 2013
From: Abita Springs, Louisiana

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to benros)

what did you pay for your f-model?

I happened to be watching an online auction over the weekend for a 2001 Bernal Clase F in very good condition. Final selling price was $719 plus $50 shipping.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 6 2019 19:30:50

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to Fred Klinge)

Seems about right to me Fred. Depends on dings of course which after almost 20 years I'd be amazed if it didn't have a few.

There just seem so many in the marketplace, although I guess that says something good about their construction and popularity

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 6 2019 20:17:42

benros

Posts: 144
Joined: Aug. 27 2016

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to flyeogh)

it seems to me, that the used bernal guitars seem to gravitate to the same price tag (in germany around 900-1200 euro), equal what model (besides the newer top models). there also is not much visible difference between the f-model and the 1a, in terms of wood choice or ornamentation. probably the 1a is the same model just built by valeriano himself. it would really interest me, how much the 1a was back then, since bernals prices where so low. anyway, probabaly better to hold mine.
bernal guitars are all over the place, because the have such a great output (i think i read somewhere, the produce 150-200
guitars per year).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 6 2019 21:18:22

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to benros)

Hi Benros
I have a long connection with Bernal guitars. I used to be their main distributor from around 2001-2003.
You can read about my involvement from this thread.

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=107001&mpage=1&p=&tmode=1&smode=1&key=bernal

To answer your question i need to know more about the guitar. The letter F signifies flamenco and there were many models ranging from (todays equilavent) of around 500 to 4000 euros. Post a photo of the label inside the guitar and a general Front /back photo
P

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 17 2019 16:02:19

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to Pimientito)

Pimientito I have read your posts from way back then and found them very interesting.

Here is the label from my Bernal 1999. Is the signed bottom half of the label relevant or do they all have that?

Would welcome any comment and hopefully Benros will put his up soon.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2019 14:00:11

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to flyeogh)

Hi.
Well I can tell you that only the higher models had the signed numbered labels. Yours is number 05 from 1999. There is no wax seal on the label so its not got that "double arco" body which was the most expensive model. At that time Valeriano made the higher models personally and he was teaching his son to build them too. I can see that that the fingerboard is ebony. Bernal used rosewood as fingerboards on the lower models and ebony on the higher ones up until about 2003, then he put ebony finger boards on all the models. Another giveaway is that it doesnt have a 3 part back which were used on the intermediate models at that time so we can say fairly confidently that this guitar is a primera (probably what is now the meastro) that was either built by Valeriano himself or with the help of his son ( who now makes the all the higher models)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2019 16:28:58

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to Pimientito)

Pimientito thank you so much for that. It all fits in exactly with the story from the previous owner, who spent his time playing in the bars and restaurants of Sevilla.

It certainly has had a hard life as the damage I'd had repaired clearly shows. But that was all cosmetic.

Anyway I like it and find it easy to play. And a story on its 20th birthday makes it even more appealing.

I'll add your comments to its history file so long after I'm gone those who get to own it will know of its past. Cheers

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2019 17:31:25

benros

Posts: 144
Joined: Aug. 27 2016

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to Pimientito)

Hey Mark,
ive already read your interesting story! Thanks for jumping in. Would be nice if you could give me some information. its not a clase f, but a 1a.
Here are the pics:

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (3)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2019 21:13:01

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to benros)

I cant tell you as much about this guitar as its from 1988 and I was not involved with the company at that time. Its definately Vals signature on the label. The numbers are about right. This is number 19 dated 30th July which is a day or 2 before the factory shut for summer. In August it got too hot in Algodonales for glue and laquer to work properly so they shut up shop and maybe only made bridges. Thats why the bridges on the higher and lower models are more or less identical. Val personally made about 35 guitars per year, his wife (one of the few guitar makers in Spain) made a large number of the "Serrania" series which were the lowest models. The whole family made the other guitar models as a collaborative effort. The output increased as the family got bigger! Again this is one of Vals guitars and it looks to be in excellent condition for its age. Because Bernals instruments were well priced, they were often well played and got fairly beaten up. You have obviously taken good care of her.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2019 18:00:45

gbv1158

Posts: 410
Joined: May 29 2009
From: Italy

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to Pimientito)

Pimientito,
what is your opinion on the current model "al alba" with cedar top and bottom and sides in cypress? .... I read somewhere that they have a layer of polyurethane too thick, is it true? and furthermore, according to your experience and opinion it is risky to buy one via internet without playing it ?, Keep in mind that my ears are used to the magnificent sound of Anders' guitars (He made a blanca and a negra for me ) but he too, some years agò, here in the forum, expressed a positive judgment on these guitars.
thank you
ciao
Giambattista

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2019 15:11:26

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to gbv1158)

quote:

Keep in mind that my ears are used to the magnificent sound of Anders' guitars (He made a blanca and a negra for me ) but he too, some years agò, here in the forum, expressed a positive judgment on these guitars.

Anders really liked my cheap, student Bernal blanca bought from Stephen Hill in the UK, who put bone nut and saddle on it. I replaced the tuners with Schallers. I like it too, it's dry and very playable.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2019 21:16:35

gbv1158

Posts: 410
Joined: May 29 2009
From: Italy

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to Escribano)

Simon, thank you
My idea on this guitar (spending more or less 2000 euro - model "Al Alba" ) is based also on the positive opinions I read here on our forum, and especially the Anders one. It is clear that my main problem is the to buy a guitar without having it in my hands first. It is true that so it was for Anders' two guitars but Anders is Anders! :-)

ciao - grazie
Giambattista

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 27 2019 14:53:08

gbv1158

Posts: 410
Joined: May 29 2009
From: Italy

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to gbv1158)

H E L P ! ......some of you guys have recently bought a Valeriano Bernal guitar from this site which says it is from the Madrid store?

http://www.valerianobernalguitars.com/guitarras-flamencas/51-valeriano-bernal-al-alba.html

Last night I paid (with pay pal) for an order of an "al Alma" model ( cedar/cipres). The strange thing is that if I go to my "cuenta" I don't automatically find the order I made. I sent an email to this address "info@valerianobernalguitars.com" (which reports the site), and tomorrow I will try to call the number that compares to the web hoping that someone will speak Italian or English .... IN THE MEAN TIME I AM VERY WORRIED ....!
thanks if any of you will answer me

ciao
Giambattista

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 2 2019 12:25:19

mrstwinkle

Posts: 551
Joined: May 14 2017

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to gbv1158)

Is it showing in your paypal history?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 2 2019 13:07:45

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to gbv1158)

quote:

I sent an email to this address "info@valerianobernalguitars.com" (which reports the site), and tomorrow I will try to call the number that compares to the web hoping that someone will speak Italian or English .... IN THE MEAN TIME I AM VERY WORRIED ....!

Probably not unusual on the weekend but check your spam folder and PayPal account summary? You are automatically protected by PayPal, so don't worry.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 2 2019 13:32:56

gbv1158

Posts: 410
Joined: May 29 2009
From: Italy

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to Escribano)

thank you Simon and mrstwinkle for you rapid answer.... I fell a little better now, on the pay pal detailed receipt on the left side is written:
(what you see written in parenthesis is written by me)

<<<< Dati destinatario
("destination information": this translated by me)

Guitarras Valeriano Bernal
(that if you click on, it opens to this site http://www.valerianobernalmadrid.com/. )

+34 911163396 x0034
http://www.valerianobernalmadrid.com
pagos@valerianobernalmadrid.com. >>>>

Now only the partial number : +34 911163396 corresponds to the one that shows on the "original" ( official?) site
http://www.valerianobernalguitars.com/guitarras-flamencas/51-valeriano-bernal-al-alba.html

but it does not correspond to the following site

http://www.valerianobernalmadrid.com/

that appears on the pay pal receipt
.... this is the point and the reason that worries me!....
I hope I have been clear....
thank you guys again for you moral support..... it helps a lot....we are talking of 2130 euro...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 2 2019 14:39:05

gbv1158

Posts: 410
Joined: May 29 2009
From: Italy

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to gbv1158)

... to be complete : on my bank account the money has been already taken....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 2 2019 14:44:14

gbv1158

Posts: 410
Joined: May 29 2009
From: Italy

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to gbv1158)

https://www.google.es/maps/place/GUITARRAS+VALERIANO+BERNAL+MADRID/@40.427676,-3.670099,16z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0xa4b7778286fe138b!8m2!3d40.4271376!4d-3.6701093?hl=es

this is checking with google map

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 2 2019 14:47:27

zavaletas

Posts: 30
Joined: Dec. 25 2004

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to benros)

Bernal has made a range of models over the years, and to complicate things, he has changed their names a number of times. When I first went to his shop in 1997, his model had numbers like model 150, meaning then that the model cost 150,000 pesetas. This system ceased with the introduction of the EURO, he then moved to named models like the Model pasion, which unless you know its price makes it hard to tell its quality simply from its name.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 2 2019 21:14:13

gbv1158

Posts: 410
Joined: May 29 2009
From: Italy

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to gbv1158)

I wanted to report that today I received from valeriano bernal guitars, two emails confirming the regularity of my purchase. When the guitar arrives I will make inform you . Thanks to those who answered to my " help" post, for the encouragement.

ciao
Giambattista

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2019 18:38:32

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to gbv1158)

quote:

I wanted to report that today I received from valeriano bernal guitars, two emails confirming the regularity of my purchase. When the guitar arrives I will make inform you

Good news.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2019 19:22:30

gbv1158

Posts: 410
Joined: May 29 2009
From: Italy

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to gbv1158)

Hi guys,
ok, I received the guitar ....my personal experience and opinion is very positive!.
ciao
Giambattista

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 17 2019 17:56:55

mrstwinkle

Posts: 551
Joined: May 14 2017

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to gbv1158)

Video needed!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 17 2019 21:44:50

gbv1158

Posts: 410
Joined: May 29 2009
From: Italy

RE: Bernal model question (in reply to mrstwinkle)

I am not equipped to record a video ... I have to ask if any of my friends help me....I will post it as soon as possible.
However the sound is practically identical to that of this video :

Ciao
Giambattista

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 21 2019 18:17:17