Chicuelo Rasgueado

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Chicuelo Rasgueado

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sim999

Posts: 73
Joined: Aug. 18 2011

Chicuelo Rasgueado

I know this question has been answered before but I can't find the post regarding the rasgueado that Chicuelo does at 8'46.

Could somebody confirm what i'm hearing ?

Sounds to me like 3 sextuplets starting on beat 1 of of a 6' group (either on the twelve or on 6 depends how you count this).
There is an off beat stroke just before the rasgueado (marked | on 9& I believe). And then I think there is one note to "launch" the rasgueado before the beat

| x123456 123456 123456 X | | | | | => then closing on 10.

I'm wondering what right hand pattern he's using I guess the golpe can just be done when the index is going down so maybe ?

a iiaiia iiaiia iiaiia (beat is on the first i going down, first a (or any finger m or i is just before the beat to launch the rasgueo)

Speaking for myself i use frequently the same one but start with an upstroke index with the downbeat either on a or directly on the index.

Formatting is all messed up but basically each groupe of 6 begin on the beat

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2018 14:29:57

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to sim999)

Pretty sure just I and M like the Jerezanos do.

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2018 16:42:29

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to sim999)

The triplets (three groups of 2 triplets in each) seem to be done just with i; if you focus on looking at the i finger and its MCP joint, you can see the finger going up and down for each stroke. I see the whole sequence like this: (lowercase for upstrokes)

(I) i (I)iIiIi (I)iIiIi (I)iIiIi (I) I I _ CAMI where there is a golpe with a on each of the (I).

The golpes are on 10 12 2 4 6 and then the cami rasgueado on 10 (well, the 'i' of the cami is on 10). (BTW I am not sure if it is cami or just ami for the last rasgueado; the rest I am pretty certain about).

One difficulty with this video is that the audio and video are not in sync - the audio is delayed by about 300 ms. I had to correct that in VLC to be more confident in what I am seeing and hearing.

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2018 18:03:12

FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to sim999)

I listened to the rasgueo before reading your explanation and I hear it exactly the same as you.

iiaiia iiaiia iiaiia i

The bolted fingers being index dowstrokes with golpe on the 12, 2, 4 and 6 respectively.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2018 18:09:50

sim999

Posts: 73
Joined: Aug. 18 2011

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to sim999)

I found another video

Same one at 5'12.

I dont think its im maybe it is indeed just i all along Iiiiii Iiiiii Iiiiii.
Lets wait on Ricardo hes pretty good at this !
Last rasgueo is just ami not cami beat is on i going down normal stuff.
Im pretty sure that there is a stroke just before the rasgueo To launch it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2018 18:43:10

sim999

Posts: 73
Joined: Aug. 18 2011

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to sim999)

Well I think it is indeed just the index but his hand is doing kind of a weird move.
What a beast ! I was trying to add new compas variations to my bulerias but this one is just too much :) The guy is uber tight all along

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2018 20:53:41

rodrigovalt

Posts: 296
Joined: May 1 2011

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to sim999)

I really think he is doing this pattern: miiiii miiiii miiiii

m down - I down - I up - I down - I up - I down

That is why the first stroke from each group has the accent (because is being done with the m finger being released from the thumb). I also think he is releasing every down stroke from the thumb, but the first one which is being done with the middle finger is a little louder.

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Rodrigo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2018 22:04:42

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to sim999)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sim999

Well I think it is indeed just the index but his hand is doing kind of a weird move.

Yeah I wondered about that too initially but if you try it yourself - I think it is just the combination of inertia (non-working fingers relaxed) and some sympathetic finger movement (and the a golpe at the beginning of each 6-group) which kind of move the hand and fingers that way, just from doing all that timed the way it is. We'll see what Ricardo says, if he notices this thread..

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2018 22:23:28

callemunicion

Posts: 85
Joined: Jun. 5 2017

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to sim999)

Ricardo discussed it already in another thread.
He said it's i down (with golpe) i up a down i down i up a down repeat

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2018 11:13:19

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to callemunicion)

quote:

ORIGINAL: callemunicion

Ricardo discussed it already in another thread.
He said it's i down (with golpe) i up a down i down i up a down repeat

That would certainly be a more common pattern (the IiAIiA...) which I considered. The problem is that it is not consistent with how the i finger moves up-down-up-down with each stroke sound. Even if some of the i movement is just to re-position (rather than strike), in the second half of the "sextuplet" the i finger moves in the opposite direction of what it would be if it were IiAIiA (see in red below):

(I)iIiIi.. versus (I)iAIiA...

Based on that I concluded it must be (I)iIiIi (I)iIiIi ...

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2018 17:37:15

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to callemunicion)

quote:

ORIGINAL: callemunicion

Ricardo discussed it already in another thread.
He said it's i down (with golpe) i up a down i down i up a down repeat

This is what Paco did in el tempul. I had assumed the same but later revised my opinion after seeing another video.

It’s all index finger down up with golpe every 6 as ktitarst and sim999 figured already
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=210578&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=chicuelo%2Cel%2Ctempul&tmode=&smode=&s=#210727

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2018 18:31:40

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
It’s all index finger down up with golpe every 6 as ktitarst and sim999 figured already

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2018 6:48:09

sim999

Posts: 73
Joined: Aug. 18 2011

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to sim999)

Thanks you Ricardo for taking the time to check this one. It is just a simple back and forth index move but my god it's so hard to do at that tempo you have to be completely relax.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2018 8:07:31

jalalkun

Posts: 276
Joined: May 3 2017
From: Iraq, living in Cologne, Germany

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to sim999)

god daym...this chap could kill a woman

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My name is Jalal.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2018 9:28:33

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to sim999)

WTF? Just index up and down??? That’s unnaturally fast.....P.E.D.’s!!

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2018 16:29:34

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to Leñador)

Check this video out, its 1080p:
https://youtu.be/CziiDtplQgo

To me it looks like he might flick out 1 extra finger besides index.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2018 21:00:47

rombsix

Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

Check this video out, its 1080p:
https://youtu.be/CziiDtplQgo

At 4:56 of the video.

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2018 21:07:00

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to rombsix)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

quote:

Check this video out, its 1080p:
https://youtu.be/CziiDtplQgo

At 4:56 of the video.

It is the same as in the previous videos. Other fingers are flailing about a bit because he is so good at letting non-working fingers stay relaxed.

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2018 22:55:58

joselito_fletan

Posts: 187
Joined: Jan. 24 2017

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to sim999)

Wow, great!!! if he is just using 'i' finger, holy crap!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2018 0:44:20

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to joselito_fletan)

Well, check the dude nodding off in the corner of the room behind chicuelo. He doesn't seem that impressed anymore really. Says it was discussed already on the foro.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2018 1:43:11

joselito_fletan

Posts: 187
Joined: Jan. 24 2017

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

Well, check the dude nodding off in the corner of the room behind chicuelo. He doesn't seem that impressed anymore really. Says it was discussed already on the foro.

touche sir

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2018 3:55:55

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Chicuelo Rasgueado (in reply to kitarist)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitarist

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

quote:

Check this video out, its 1080p:
https://youtu.be/CziiDtplQgo

At 4:56 of the video.

It is the same as in the previous videos. Other fingers are flailing about a bit because he is so good at letting non-working fingers stay relaxed.

What is slightly different in this video is that he puts more emphasis on the 3rd i stroke (second i down-stroke) in each 6-group: (the bolded I's below):

(I)iIiIi (I)iIiIi (I)iIiIi

This does cause some more and different "flailing" than in the other videos (on the bolded strokes, the cam fingers spread like a fan momentarily ("jazz fingers")), but the striking pattern is still the same.

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2018 16:46:42