RE: criticism in this foro

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Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: criticism in this foro (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

because I simply LOOK spanish

Lucky bastard

I look foreign enough that sometimes people think I suck before I've even grabbed the guitar. They're not wrong, but at least I'd like to be able to demonstrate how much I suck before they decide.

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 10 2017 18:36:55

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: criticism in this foro (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

First "fakemenco" and now this?

what's the problem?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 10 2017 20:55:50

Ghodaddyyo

Posts: 26
Joined: Aug. 2 2016
From: Huntington Beach, CA

RE: criticism in this foro (in reply to Piwin)

I joined this site just over a year ago. With the almost absent presence of Flamenco guitar instruction in my area, it was exciting to join this forum filled with like minded beginners as well as seasoned pros. I must admit that I too sensed some of the criticism and harshness here. Maybe it was my over zealousness, asking "noobie" questions, whatever it was, I started to withdraw from posting anything.

I continue to devour every bit of information I can from the search archives so the information here is very valuable to me. I was in that, all too familiar to you, zone of being an experienced guitar player but a beginner at flamenco. As an experienced guitar player, some of that criticism and "tone" I experienced felt uncalled for. I don't know if it's the result of past noobies coming and going and me being just another one, but it was very off putting.

I found a flamenco teacher locally and have been taking lessons for the past year. I feel I've made great strides, but I still hesitate to post anything due to past experience. I just occasionally read the forums, and continue plugging away at learning flamenco. I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels this. I've seen quite a few noobie posts and relive that same harshness when reading responses. I've participated in many music forums over the years, contributing whatever I know, even financially, but it seems noobies here wear out the welcome mat very quickly. Maybe I'm just a snowflake and need tougher skin.

I post this not as a way to insult the community, but to show I sympathize with the original poster and other noobies. I don't know if my words will make any difference, but either way, I will continue learning flamenco the best I can.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2017 18:34:52

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: criticism in this foro (in reply to Ghodaddyyo)

I absolutely agree. What you say not only applies to experienced guitar players and flamenco beginners but to long year flamenco-players as well.

quote:

I've participated in many music forums over the years ... Maybe I'm just a snowflake and need tougher skin.

This may be something typical of flamenco. I found this attitude very off-putting in flamenco classes in Spain some 30 years ago. Things have changed to the better however (at least there).
So maybe things here are more "macho' and "rajo", and if you're too much of a "snowflake" - or just too plain polite - you may have to go play baroque guitar

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Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2017 7:36:40

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: criticism in this foro (in reply to Ghodaddyyo)

@ Ghodaddyyo

I think your post is very usefull. At least it made me think about this.
There are a lot of questions from “newbies” that is asked many times.
It is normal, because some members are here for 10+ years. So a lot is said and done in this time.
And that makes the attitute a bit blasè, not nessecary, but it happens.

Now, I read you have had in the past year a teacher, and it would be fun to see how your progression is.
It is a pity, and very understandible, that you do not whant to share this.
But, in fact, thát is the purpose from a forum. To learn from each other and help a guy out that is not as far or on the same path as you are.

The foro, should be a save place for especially “newbies”,
So if I may be so free, the new year is comming up, and we are all here to learn.

My “good Intension” for this year and I hope some will follow me,
Not to be blasé. Make this a save place to everybody.

Thanks Ghodaddyyo for this lesson

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2017 14:03:19

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: criticism in this foro (in reply to gerundino63)

quote:

There are a lot of questions from “newbies” that is asked many times.
It is normal, because some members are here for 10+ years. So a lot is said and done in this time.

makes me cringe when someone new comes and asks a question and someone who has been here a long time gives a reply like:

"again? we already answered this

"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2017 14:22:58

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: criticism in this foro (in reply to Ghodaddyyo)

quote:

I too sensed some of the criticism and harshness here.... I started to withdraw from posting anything.
.... zone of being an experienced guitar player but a beginner at flamenco. As an experienced guitar player, some of that criticism and "tone" I experienced felt uncalled for.

at least you were a beginner at flamenco, I had been at it about 15 years when I joined, and I felt it a bit too.... sort of as if anyone joining was a noob....

To be honest (and I've said this before in relation to other conflicts) I think the medium of internet doesn't help. Without really knowing people, and without facial expression, tone of voice and physical gesture it can be hard to make and take jokes, criticism etc. Sometimes I have re-read my own posts and they have sounded more blunt and hard than I intended. I try to be careful to re-read and preview posts, avoid personal comments, try to make what I say simple, clear and unambiguous so (hopefully) it can't be taken the wrong way. Doesn't always work though....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2017 14:30:56

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: criticism in this foro (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

makes me cringe when someone new comes and asks a question and someone who has been here a long time gives a reply like "again? we already answered this

pfff. That complaint again?!

badum ts.

Seriously though, thanks for the example because that's part of what's missing for me in this discussion. I get the feeling people are expressing but I'm having a hard time figuring out what specifically causes it so the examples help. So, a few times I've replied to certain comments by telling them that they'd find stuff using the search bar. Is that too dismissive? It's usually stuff where it's pretty obvious that they didn't try because I type the simple key words of their search and I get loads of threads on the question they want answered. I'm actually saying it to be helpful but if it's seen as dismissive, I'll refrain.

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2017 14:31:14

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: criticism in this foro (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

pfff. That complaint again?!

quote:

So, a few times I've replied to certain comments by telling them that they'd find stuff using the search bar. Is that too dismissive? It's usually stuff where it's pretty obvious that they didn't try because I type the simple key words of their search and I get loads of threads on the question they want answered. I'm actually saying it to be helpful but if it's seen as dismissive, I'll refrain.

no, I don't think that's a problem, I don't think it's dismissive, I think it's, as you say, helpful. and they might not have realised search was there or so useful. Maybe they didn't try cos they didn't know about it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2017 14:35:15

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: criticism in this foro (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo

quote:

There are a lot of questions from “newbies” that is asked many times.
It is normal, because some members are here for 10+ years. So a lot is said and done in this time.

makes me cringe when someone new comes and asks a question and someone who has been here a long time gives a reply like:

"again? we already answered this "

. Cringe all ya want. I think it is a very loaded and sexist topic. I used to answer the same questions over and over and over up until about 2016 or so because I felt as you do back then. Now I am actually getting too old I guess? At least I bothered the time to search it up from the archives, which are NOT that easy to use IMO. FAQ are designed for this exact purpose, perhaps we should make some to avoid this problem? When I visit other forums I spend quite some time searching and reading before posting a specific question.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2017 17:46:55

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: criticism in this foro (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

I used answer the same questions over and over and over up until about 2016 or so. Now I am actually getting too old I guess? At least I bothered the time to search it up from the archives, which are NOT that easy to use IMO.

sure, I get it, but it's not like it's the same person coming back and asking the same question, is it?!

It's not too hard to just post a link to a previous thread and maybe just say "search is your friend" - no need to make them feel stoopid for asking (once they realise it's there and how it works they can do that for themselves!

)

do you teach beginners? do you get bored teaching the same beginner stuff over and over? but you want them to come back, right?

quote:

When I visit other forums I spend quite some time searching and reading before posting a specific question.

I did too before posting here. And here is my first and only forum. It still took me a while to get the hang of the whole thing, posting, replying, how threads work, search etc. etc.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2017 18:04:05

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: criticism in this foro (in reply to mark indigo)

much easier (and better) is if people who can't be bothered or are bored just don't reply anything. And those who want to, and answer the repetitive noobish questions, do it.

ez pz, and nobody gets hurt.

Those who can't be bothered anymore....well, they didn't get bothered, cause they didn't invest time again and again and again......and the noobie doesn't get hurt in his feelings either, cause he can't read the annoyed mind of those who are bored of the same questions, but didn't post anything

,,,, he will just read the visible reply from those who want to reply with an answer and is happy

this method only works until nobody replies though lol

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2017 18:43:27

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: criticism in this foro (in reply to mark indigo)

@mark indigo
OK, cool. Thanks!

@Arash
yeah but now that technique won't work because you told everyone what we're going to do. Now when somebody gets no replies, he'll know we're all secretly judging him

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2017 11:38:25