RE: criticism in this foro (Full Version)

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Piwin -> RE: criticism in this foro (Dec. 10 2017 18:36:55)

quote:

because I simply LOOK spanish


Lucky bastard [8D]

I look foreign enough that sometimes people think I suck before I've even grabbed the guitar. They're not wrong, but at least I'd like to be able to demonstrate how much I suck before they decide. [8D]



mark indigo -> RE: criticism in this foro (Dec. 10 2017 20:55:50)

quote:

First "fakemenco" and now this?


what's the problem? [8|]



Ghodaddyyo -> RE: criticism in this foro (Dec. 13 2017 18:34:52)

I joined this site just over a year ago. With the almost absent presence of Flamenco guitar instruction in my area, it was exciting to join this forum filled with like minded beginners as well as seasoned pros. I must admit that I too sensed some of the criticism and harshness here. Maybe it was my over zealousness, asking "noobie" questions, whatever it was, I started to withdraw from posting anything.

I continue to devour every bit of information I can from the search archives so the information here is very valuable to me. I was in that, all too familiar to you, zone of being an experienced guitar player but a beginner at flamenco. As an experienced guitar player, some of that criticism and "tone" I experienced felt uncalled for. I don't know if it's the result of past noobies coming and going and me being just another one, but it was very off putting.

I found a flamenco teacher locally and have been taking lessons for the past year. I feel I've made great strides, but I still hesitate to post anything due to past experience. I just occasionally read the forums, and continue plugging away at learning flamenco. I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels this. I've seen quite a few noobie posts and relive that same harshness when reading responses. I've participated in many music forums over the years, contributing whatever I know, even financially, but it seems noobies here wear out the welcome mat very quickly. Maybe I'm just a snowflake and need tougher skin.

I post this not as a way to insult the community, but to show I sympathize with the original poster and other noobies. I don't know if my words will make any difference, but either way, I will continue learning flamenco the best I can.



edguerin -> RE: criticism in this foro (Dec. 15 2017 7:36:40)

I absolutely agree. What you say not only applies to experienced guitar players and flamenco beginners but to long year flamenco-players as well.
quote:

I've participated in many music forums over the years ... Maybe I'm just a snowflake and need tougher skin.

This may be something typical of flamenco. I found this attitude very off-putting in flamenco classes in Spain some 30 years ago. Things have changed to the better however (at least there).
So maybe things here are more "macho' and "rajo", and if you're too much of a "snowflake" - or just too plain polite - you may have to go play baroque guitar [:(]



gerundino63 -> RE: criticism in this foro (Dec. 15 2017 14:03:19)

@ Ghodaddyyo

I think your post is very usefull. At least it made me think about this.
There are a lot of questions from “newbies” that is asked many times.
It is normal, because some members are here for 10+ years. So a lot is said and done in this time.
And that makes the attitute a bit blasè, not nessecary, but it happens.

Now, I read you have had in the past year a teacher, and it would be fun to see how your progression is.
It is a pity, and very understandible, that you do not whant to share this.
But, in fact, thát is the purpose from a forum. To learn from each other and help a guy out that is not as far or on the same path as you are.

The foro, should be a save place for especially “newbies”,
So if I may be so free, the new year is comming up, and we are all here to learn.

My “good Intension” for this year and I hope some will follow me,
Not to be blasé. Make this a save place to everybody.

Thanks Ghodaddyyo for this lesson



mark indigo -> RE: criticism in this foro (Dec. 15 2017 14:22:58)

quote:

There are a lot of questions from “newbies” that is asked many times.
It is normal, because some members are here for 10+ years. So a lot is said and done in this time.


makes me cringe when someone new comes and asks a question and someone who has been here a long time gives a reply like:

"again? we already answered this[8|]"



mark indigo -> RE: criticism in this foro (Dec. 15 2017 14:30:56)

quote:

I too sensed some of the criticism and harshness here.... I started to withdraw from posting anything.
.... zone of being an experienced guitar player but a beginner at flamenco. As an experienced guitar player, some of that criticism and "tone" I experienced felt uncalled for.


at least you were a beginner at flamenco, I had been at it about 15 years when I joined, and I felt it a bit too.... sort of as if anyone joining was a noob....

To be honest (and I've said this before in relation to other conflicts) I think the medium of internet doesn't help. Without really knowing people, and without facial expression, tone of voice and physical gesture it can be hard to make and take jokes, criticism etc. Sometimes I have re-read my own posts and they have sounded more blunt and hard than I intended. I try to be careful to re-read and preview posts, avoid personal comments, try to make what I say simple, clear and unambiguous so (hopefully) it can't be taken the wrong way. Doesn't always work though....[:(]



Piwin -> RE: criticism in this foro (Dec. 15 2017 14:31:14)

quote:

makes me cringe when someone new comes and asks a question and someone who has been here a long time gives a reply like "again? we already answered this


pfff. That complaint again?!

badum ts.

[:D]

Seriously though, thanks for the example because that's part of what's missing for me in this discussion. I get the feeling people are expressing but I'm having a hard time figuring out what specifically causes it so the examples help. So, a few times I've replied to certain comments by telling them that they'd find stuff using the search bar. Is that too dismissive? It's usually stuff where it's pretty obvious that they didn't try because I type the simple key words of their search and I get loads of threads on the question they want answered. I'm actually saying it to be helpful but if it's seen as dismissive, I'll refrain.



mark indigo -> RE: criticism in this foro (Dec. 15 2017 14:35:15)

quote:

pfff. That complaint again?!

[:D]

quote:

So, a few times I've replied to certain comments by telling them that they'd find stuff using the search bar. Is that too dismissive? It's usually stuff where it's pretty obvious that they didn't try because I type the simple key words of their search and I get loads of threads on the question they want answered. I'm actually saying it to be helpful but if it's seen as dismissive, I'll refrain.


no, I don't think that's a problem, I don't think it's dismissive, I think it's, as you say, helpful. and they might not have realised search was there or so useful. Maybe they didn't try cos they didn't know about it.



Ricardo -> RE: criticism in this foro (Dec. 15 2017 17:46:55)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo

quote:

There are a lot of questions from “newbies” that is asked many times.
It is normal, because some members are here for 10+ years. So a lot is said and done in this time.


makes me cringe when someone new comes and asks a question and someone who has been here a long time gives a reply like:

"again? we already answered this[8|]"


[:D]. Cringe all ya want. I think it is a very loaded and sexist topic. I used to answer the same questions over and over and over up until about 2016 or so because I felt as you do back then. Now I am actually getting too old I guess? At least I bothered the time to search it up from the archives, which are NOT that easy to use IMO. FAQ are designed for this exact purpose, perhaps we should make some to avoid this problem? When I visit other forums I spend quite some time searching and reading before posting a specific question.



mark indigo -> RE: criticism in this foro (Dec. 15 2017 18:04:05)

quote:

I used answer the same questions over and over and over up until about 2016 or so. Now I am actually getting too old I guess? At least I bothered the time to search it up from the archives, which are NOT that easy to use IMO.

sure, I get it, but it's not like it's the same person coming back and asking the same question, is it?!

It's not too hard to just post a link to a previous thread and maybe just say "search is your friend" - no need to make them feel stoopid for asking (once they realise it's there and how it works they can do that for themselves![:D])

do you teach beginners? do you get bored teaching the same beginner stuff over and over? but you want them to come back, right?

quote:

When I visit other forums I spend quite some time searching and reading before posting a specific question.

I did too before posting here. And here is my first and only forum. It still took me a while to get the hang of the whole thing, posting, replying, how threads work, search etc. etc.



Arash -> RE: criticism in this foro (Dec. 15 2017 18:43:27)

much easier (and better) is if people who can't be bothered or are bored just don't reply anything. And those who want to, and answer the repetitive noobish questions, do it.

ez pz, and nobody gets hurt.

Those who can't be bothered anymore....well, they didn't get bothered, cause they didn't invest time again and again and again......and the noobie doesn't get hurt in his feelings either, cause he can't read the annoyed mind of those who are bored of the same questions, but didn't post anything [:D] ,,,, he will just read the visible reply from those who want to reply with an answer and is happy

this method only works until nobody replies though lol



Piwin -> RE: criticism in this foro (Dec. 16 2017 11:38:25)

@mark indigo
OK, cool. Thanks!

@Arash
yeah but now that technique won't work because you told everyone what we're going to do. Now when somebody gets no replies, he'll know we're all secretly judging him [:D]



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