Alternative finger combination for picado...

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lewisyau1984

Posts: 7
Joined: Oct. 15 2015

Alternative finger combination for p...

My index finger is about 2cm shorter than my middle finger. I have been adjusting the bending angle of my index and middle fingers in order to accommodate and compensate their difference in length but the result is not so satisfactory. My right hand feels very stiff and cramp when I play i-m picado at even moderate tempo (say 85bpm four notes per bit).

When I try the alternative finger combination i.e. i-a and m-a, my right hand feels much more comfortable. Anyone here has similar experience like me?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2017 6:31:33

Kuruhead

Posts: 11
Joined: Jun. 10 2015

RE: Alternative finger combination f... (in reply to lewisyau1984)

If you play flat like paco it doesnt't matter

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2017 14:17:38

rombsix

Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Alternative finger combination f... (in reply to lewisyau1984)

Wow, man - that's pretty remarkable.

Looks like you're an "m-a" picador to me.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2017 15:28:02

FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Alternative finger combination f... (in reply to lewisyau1984)

A friend of mine changed to i-a picado for that reason and took a bit less than a year to fully adapt. Sounds pretty much the same as before but he claims to be much more comfortable for his hand.

Many guitarists practise picado exercises with i-m, i-a and m-a combinations to strengthen the less developed fingers and balance the hand.

Paco de Antequera used i-a as his main fingers for picados:

Try it out and see if it works for you. Good luck!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2017 16:52:10

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Alternative finger combination f... (in reply to lewisyau1984)

Yes , I did ...I changed almost by accident as it just kept happening ..I had to slow myself down (ha ) to see what it was i was doing ...
However what happens now is its mainly i a , but going down the m finger kinda goes in there for a string change with no problem .....
hey it works so i leave it going ....
Pic of me and my hand ......enclosed

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2017 17:28:49

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Alternative finger combination f... (in reply to lewisyau1984)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lewisyau1984

My index finger is about 2cm shorter than my middle finger. I have been adjusting the bending angle of my index and middle fingers in order to accommodate and compensate their difference in length but the result is not so satisfactory. My right hand feels very stiff and cramp when I play i-m picado at even moderate tempo (say 85bpm four notes per bit).

Before you start switching to m-a or i-a, could you elaborate a bit on your hand position and setup? I am surprised that you would feel stiff and cramp at 85x4 no matter what the difference in finger length. Also, don't try (if you are) to force the same finger curve/bend for both fingers - your m finger would be more curved so its middle joint would be "sticking out" a bit and that's OK as far as that goes(*) - the important thing is to see and feel how the fingertips move as they execute a pluck, rest on the back string and then prepare again. You also might have to file and shape the nails a bit differently.

(*) If you are executing from the MCP (big knuckle) joint, this should not feel too awkward - basically you have two differently-curved pendulums (pendulae? (**)) of more-or-less fixed - but different - curvature swinging from the MCP joint.

(**) The plural of pendulum - apparently an important subject in physics - behold: The plural of pendulum: The Physics Teacher: Vol 14, No 4

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2017 18:21:15

Filip

Posts: 403
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Alternative finger combination f... (in reply to lewisyau1984)

My i and m fingers are also quite different in length, same as on the photo more or less, but I always thought that's normal. Now I am not sure.

Anyway, I never tried to do i-a or m-a, as the matter of fact what always concerned me is that I can't use a finger for anything other than arpeggio/tremolo/resgueado. So I can't play a note with a finger apoyando style, can't explain but I think it's the nail that makes me feel weird and uncomfortable to the point that I never could use a finger in the way that I use i and m. I don't know if this is normal.

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2017 19:22:20

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Alternative finger combination f... (in reply to lewisyau1984)

Nice strong pinky you got there Kiko!

Back on topic... Who plays picado with dead straight fingers and knuckles (like in your photo)? Never seen anyone do that. Finger lengths even out when the knuckles are bent. So how do your fingers look when on the strings?

Cramping or stiffness can also comes from playing too much of one technique without switching. Switching between tirando and apoyando can help bring in different muscles.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2017 21:10:16

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Alternative finger combination f... (in reply to lewisyau1984)

i
I Forgot to mention that it also seems easier if, for a picado, i move my arm /Wrist around forward , to be much more at 90 degrees to the strings ,

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2017 21:11:08

Kuruhead

Posts: 11
Joined: Jun. 10 2015

RE: Alternative finger combination f... (in reply to lewisyau1984)

Ifyou want to use straight fingers, all you gotta do is play with the angle of your palm. Even some cano roto guys use straight fingers (the i at least), but the palm is close to parallel with the guitar.
https://youtu.be/iofYMJA0-sk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2017 21:44:51

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Alternative finger combination f... (in reply to lewisyau1984)

Tell us your nail maintenance secrets Kiko. The ladies must admire your fat fingers. *nudge nudge wink wink*

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 28 2017 2:32:58

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Alternative finger combination f... (in reply to lewisyau1984)

This is a common situation. Everybody's fingers orientation is more or less the same, m is longer than i, but the reason for difficulty does not start and end there. Like many other work arounds, the i-a solution seems superficially like a good idea, but it is really not the same as proper picado in my mind (and hands). Basically, it's an excuse for not working on the proper technique, which is fine actually, there is no law about it, but in the end you're just circumventing something that has a perfectly good reason behind it to do it a certain way. Flamenco always allows for very personalized technique styles of course, so long as the final results are "flamenco".

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 28 2017 12:40:32

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Alternative finger combination f... (in reply to lewisyau1984)

I once hurt my middle finger and had to use the ia, and it was just about as fast as im after a day or two of practicing. In some ways, my ia is still more fluent. But I don't think it ever sounds the same, and I agree with Ricardo that there is a technical problem there in im that should perhaps be tackled and defeated if you want to be complete.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2017 2:48:02