Playing and expression styles, sparse vs. "thick"

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

Jamey

Posts: 187
Joined: Jul. 7 2004
From: Winnipeg, Canada

Playing and expression styles, spars...

I've been finding that I prefer very sparse playing while both listening and playing. I'm referring to the sparse yet expressive styles of those like Diego Amaya (while accompanying Capullo), Moraíto, and even P. Habichuela (on "Hondo" for example). I know I prefer to hear it and playing that way (or my pathetic rendition of it) is probably because I'm both lazy AND a lousy player (I'm definitely no Grisha). But I like that dark, earthy sensibility that comes from that playing rather than the overt frenetic virtuosity that many others employ. As amazing as it is to witness and on occasion listen to, it simply seems to be missing something for me (purely opinion here). It also needs to have a noticeable arabic-mozarabic feel to it for me. I don't know why that is, just that it "sounds right" to me.

Purely opinion, nothing more.

- Jamey -

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2006 19:09:57

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Playing and expression styles, s... (in reply to Jamey)

Jamey, how's it hangin man! Good to see you.:)

I like sparse, and tasteful, lightly peppered with technical
virtuosity. :)

TK

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2006 19:36:38

Jamey

Posts: 187
Joined: Jul. 7 2004
From: Winnipeg, Canada

RE: Playing and expression styles, s... (in reply to Jamey)

I suck at technical virtuosity.

Not that it's really the reason I prefer to hear things as sparse but I guess sleepless nights and chasing a hyper active one and a half year old leaves me wanting for things less frenetic.

- Jamey

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2006 19:50:00

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Playing and expression styles, s... (in reply to Jamey)

I think I understand what you mean. I hear alot of Carmen Amaye these days. Its totally different from what is played nowadays in flamenco. "Flamenco is a living art" - blabla we keep hearing this and its not wrong imo, flamenco has survived and more, it has developed musically. But one should also ask at which price.

For me I like both but they are different. Flamenco was even popular in hollywood in the 30s I think,...a complete different image. You cannot reconstruct the conditions of a time period.

_____________________________

Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2006 19:56:40

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Playing and expression styles, s... (in reply to Jamey)

Jamey,

I agree with you on technical virtuosity, that it's not what makes music great. I mean, listen to Sabicas' last recordings, where he's so old and can't move his fingers like before. And yet, it's still magical, and he leaves a memorable impression. I especially like his concert with Morente.

But on the other hand, Paco's last CD left me longing for his furious picado and alzapua, etc. If you can do it, why not use it? And I don't mean over-use it like El Niño does.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2006 20:00:40

Jamey

Posts: 187
Joined: Jul. 7 2004
From: Winnipeg, Canada

RE: Playing and expression styles, s... (in reply to Grisha)

Yeah I agree with you regarding the Sabícas-Morente recording. I do really like that one. There's something very special about that recording (I want to say 'album' but in this day and age that word seems to have no meaning anymore).

Regarding PDL's latest, I didn't mind it all that much but it doesn't get that much play-time with me because it left me a little flat overall. I think this is only because I'm expecting a lot more from PDL simply because of who he is. Admittedly, I don't listen to him that much at all anyway (and never have). I know his stature and undeniable presence but the music of other players have always grabbed me a little more. I listen to cante more than anything and I suspect that perhaps that's where my preference for sparse playing has come from (I'm just thinking this through, now as I type this). I listen to El Capullo and El Torta quite a bit. They are often accompanied by players that use a very distinct and dark approach (more often than not). Perhaps if I started listening to more elaborate playing more often, that I'd come to enjoy them more.....hard for me to say.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2006 20:40:05

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Playing and expression styles, s... (in reply to Jamey)

Jamey,
that's funny, I just realized that I prefer the lighter flamencos myself. The charm of Sabicas, the strange world of Riqueni, the playful funkiness of Tomatito.

I am still trying to like Nino Ricardo (not the Nino Grisha was talking about, I think!).

_____________________________

Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ

Arizona Wedding Music Guitar

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2006 1:16:01

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: Playing and expression styles, s... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

nino ricardo's siguiriya is proably the best i've ever heard, it'd take something or someone special to top it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2006 10:50:34

Ryan002

Posts: 173
Joined: Oct. 18 2005
From: Singapore

RE: Playing and expression styles, s... (in reply to Jamey)

No one likes Manolo De Huelva? His Fandangos aern't too heavily adorned or complicated but they are quite elegant I think, and catchy still.

I can't quite get into Nino Ricardo, although I heard a Soleares from him that I quite liked. Mind you, I have odd and immature tastes in Flamenco music.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2006 14:29:06

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: Playing and expression styles, s... (in reply to Ryan002)

sabicas would proably be my favourtie flamenco guitarist. bronce gitano is just sheer magic, and i like the percussive element in his playing the sheer variety and textures his golpes are astounding, especially in that zambra "el castillo moro".

i got that dvd sabicas king of the flamenco guitar of ebay latley for less than 7dollars, and i must say it was well worth every cent to watch the man in action. the mans technique is simply ethereal.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2006 14:40:45

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Playing and expression styles, s... (in reply to Ryan002)

quote:

No one likes Manolo De Huelva?

I do. He liked to play in strict tempo, and was the earliest player I have heard doing staccato picados. He was more of a rhythm guy, which I like.

In terms of the topic, I somewhat feel different. I like when the guitarist is accompanying fills up the spaces nicely, just at the right moments. I love dynamics, but there is a trend nowadays to play very "suave" or light for the cante, always. I prefer a more "ballsy" approach, but that is just me. P. Cepero plays soft at times, but when the time comes he explodes with loud rasg, picados, or whatever. The singing is very intense at times, and when the guitar is also intense, it adds to the whole energy of the performance. I don't like when a guitarist holds back. Like a singer singing his guts out and then a soft major 7 chord is lightly brushed behind him...

. Guys like Moraito, Cepero, Tomatito, Nunez, PDL, Chicuelo, etc I consider "ballsy" accompanists. I like a sophisticated falseta, but lately Tomatito is getting more and more "suave" with his licks. Lots of players are heading in that direction. Amigo started it I think with Remedios Amaya. It was really cool at first, different. I like P. Habichuela too, but I prefer his older brother Jaun, very sophisticated falsetas and cool ways to fill up the space when accomp.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 31 2006 15:26:27