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RE: The middle joint in picado
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Piwin
Posts: 3565
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
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RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to guitbox)
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You sure trust your eyesight a lot more than I do. The thing is, if we really want to know what's going on, mere visual observation won't get us anywhere for the simple fact that there are no muscles in the fingers (everything is in the palm or forearm). Everything that is happening in your fingers is just the result of an action higher up in the hand or forearm. In other words, anything you're seeing is just the result of a root cause that is not in the fingers. And to determine what that root cause is, you'd need medical imagery, not eyesight. Even if you were able to determine that this or that joint did move or not, you wouldn't be any closer to understanding what is actually happening unless you have the anatomical and medical knowledge to interpret that observation. Seeing is definitely not believing, at least not for anyone who tries to uphold any reasonable standard of proof. My wildly uneducated guess is that people who have problems because they were taught to play "from the big knuckle" have those problems because they are using unnecessary muscle tension to keep the fingers rigid. And that problem can be solved by focusing on being relaxed. And if they're looking for that muscular tension in the fingers, they're simply looking at the wrong spot. They should be looking at the palm and forearm. edit: my bad, there is one kind of muscle in the fingers: arrector pili, the one that, when it contracts, causes goosebumps.
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Date May 1 2017 21:54:38
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ToddK
Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
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RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to athrane77)
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Piwin got to it before i could here, but he's right on. You're looking in the basement, when the answers are on the roof. You're in a car race, and when you start the race, your tires are spinning way too much, and instead of easing up on the gas pedal, you're looking to see what's wrong with the tires. This is all about how your brain communicates with your fingers. Not how your fingers are moving. The answer is in the brain, not in the hand. You must practice certain things while thinking about certain things, a certain way. Watching other peoples fingers will do absolutely nothing to help you get any further. Massive frustration over a long period of time often leads people into desperation, and its in desperation that you start to do stupid things, like thinking "If i move my fingers like Paco, i'll somehow be able to play faster".
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Date May 2 2017 0:57:24
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mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
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RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to kitarist)
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quote:
is it the weight of the forearm/inertia argument? I have no idea what "weight of the forearm/inertia argument" is. the most significant parts for me are: "You just have to find the way that makes the most sense for you." and "You can experiment to find a more natural position." I quoted 'cos these are kind of principles that don't need the concrete examples of what he demonstrates on screen. Actually the most significant part is the second one: "You can experiment to find a more natural position." There was some discussion earlier about whether or not to analyse, and the value (or not) of anatomical knowledge. A lot of the stuff about "mechanics", "exchange", "release" etc. I don't really understand what all that is about. I suspect it is either looking in the wrong place/s or making it more complicated than it needs to be, or both. First it makes sense to me that "if it ain't broke don't fix it", so if you are only going to go down this path of anatomy and analysis if you have a problem. Second the point for me about anatomy and analyzing such problems is not to figure out the right thing to do, but to avoid the wrong things. So when Gerardo says "find a more natural position" I interpret that to mean put the hand and fingers to the strings in a way consistent with the physical structure, and move the fingers in a way that the physical structure, the anatomy, is suited to. And experiment with that too. I also got the idea from someone who had been on Manolo Sanlucar's courses, to make the movements as natural as possible. Like grasping an orange (or squeezing a tennis ball). You wouldn't do either of those with straight fingers, you would naturally bend the fingers. So for me experimentation good, natural "position" (or "relationship") and natural movements good.
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Date May 11 2017 14:03:08
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mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
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RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to Leñador)
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quote:
So when Gerardo says "find a more natural position" I interpret that to mean put the hand and fingers to the strings in a way consistent with the physical structure, and move the fingers in a way that the physical structure, the anatomy, is suited to. quote:
That's a bit like, "walk naturally and think about what walking naturally should look like while you do it." Fifty bucks says you're going to end up walking like a injured bird. I don't think it's like that at all, because, as I understand it, we are born with an instinct to walk, and little kids walk (and move around generally) in a really natural way (in the absence of injury or disease). So what happens to that? We interfere with it. So my interpretation of find a more natural position is to work with the physical structure, and not interfere with the natural way the fingers move (eg. by holding the fingers straight, or the and stiff).
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Date May 15 2017 14:09:49
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