Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
I'm still getting a handle on general flamenco structure. I know compas is very important, as well as technique (you can't play in 4/4 with a pick and call it flamenco), but at what point(s) does flamenco end and another style begin?
RE: At what point does it stop being... (in reply to Leñador)
Lenny, that could equally just be a case of the singer needing to educate himself. I've seen and met plenty of singers in Spain who only sing and really know a few palos. Singers aren't all the be all and end all ya know
RE: At what point does it stop being... (in reply to JohnWalshGuitar)
I remember playing Sabicas's Zapateado en Re during a lull at the pena. One guy told me to stop messing around with that classical sh*t and play some flamenco...
_____________________________
"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: At what point does it stop being... (in reply to soclydeza85)
quote:
ORIGINAL: soclydeza85
I'm still getting a handle on general flamenco structure. I know compas is very important, as well as technique (you can't play in 4/4 with a pick and call it flamenco), but at what point(s) does flamenco end and another style begin?
If one is to make a deliberate fusion of styles, the elements of each style should be clearly identified. For example "Chiquito" by Paco de Lucia....the melody is Anda Jaleo a la Garcia Lorca...the compas is Alegrias or Solea por Bulerias (as opposed to the original setting of the melody por bulerias), but the harmonies used are pretty "jazzy" if you will, and then the section of chord progression having nothing to do with the main melody is a "chart" of chords over which improvisations are made, very much from "jazz school".
So that is one example, but as you see it comes down to specifics.
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: At what point does it stop being... (in reply to soclydeza85)
As you can tell from the responses to your question, from Lenny suggesting a cantaor, or a "real" aficionado (however that is defined) would know, to Ramzi suggesting anything Paco de Lucia plays is flamenco, there is no defined point at which flamenco ends and another "style" begins. I would wager that if you got a group of "real" aficionados in a room, they would not agree on when flamenco has gone off a cliff and become something else. We can all agree on "core" flamenco palos and playing, but when you get to the outer edges of becoming an "ensemble" and, as Ricardo suggests, becoming much more "jazz," that's where definitions break down, even among aficionados.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: At what point does it stop being... (in reply to rombsix)
quote:
ORIGINAL: rombsix
If it was played by Paco de Lucia, then it's flamenco. That's what he said.
No, he said he only knew how to be a flamenco guitarist...not that he didn't attempt to play other music, AS a flamenco guitarist. He also admits trashing falsetas that were not "flamenco" enough for his own taste.
RE: At what point does it stop being... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
No, he said he only knew how to be a flamenco guitarist...
If i'm not mistaken he also said something like "i call everything i like "flamenco" (wether it was actual flamenco, Bach, Chick Corea or whatever touched his heart :-).
_____________________________
The smaller the object of your focus the bigger the result.
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
RE: At what point does it stop being... (in reply to soclydeza85)
To truly approved as flamenco, you must submit a recording to the Office of Flamenco Purity (OFP), located somewhere in Jerez, but only the locals know where for sure. It it also speculated that the OFP is actually located on the internet and consists of a virtual Star Chamber of disinterested foreign judges.
RE: At what point does it stop being... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
quote:
To truly approved as flamenco, you must submit a recording to the Office of Flamenco Purity (OFP), located somewhere in Jerez, but only the locals know where for sure. It it also speculated that the OFP is actually located on the internet and consists of a virtual Star Chamber of disinterested foreign judges.
Printable Version
That's what he said. 
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread