High end tuners

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High end tuners

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f.j.w.

Posts: 20
Joined: Aug. 20 2016

High end tuners

Friend of mine asked me to recommend high end tuners for her old Francisco Simplicio classical guitar. The old tuners are worn out. She wants hand made high end super tuners, which is the only thing that she will put on a hand made high end super guitar.

Problem is that I haven't got any personal experience with various high end tuners. The only ones I know is Rodgers. Another friend of mine have a Gary Southwell guitar with Rodgers tuners, and they are truly wonderful.

This may be like comparing Ferraris to Aston Martins. Someone may have very strong opinions, but you can not really say that one is better than the other.

Does any of you have any thought or recommendations for hight end tuners?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2016 13:53:41

Echi

Posts: 1131
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: High end tuners (in reply to f.j.w.)

I had many guitars and always loved to have either Fustero or quite good tuners on them: therefore I had many.
As ratio precision/smoothness I'd suggest you (in order) Klaus Scheller, Rodgers, Alessi, or Baliak.
Exagon and M&M are nice, smooth and ultra precise being also relatively cheap, but maybe they look too modern for a Simplicio.
For a Simplicio guitar I'd suggest either Rodgers or Alessi (Simplicio model).
Alessi is about to send me a specially engraved Fleta model (he is actually making some sets to be sent to Gabriel Fleta).
The price will be around 380 Euro (here in Europe), while I couldn't find any Rodgers tuning machine for less than 700 $.
In terms of pure efficiency, Gotoh pro, Rubner pro model, Gilbert, Schaller grandtune, Baliak etc can work just as nicely as more expensive tuners.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2016 14:24:56

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: High end tuners (in reply to f.j.w.)

This guitar could be nearly 100 years old. If I owned this guitar I would try to put on tuners that reflected the period and design of the original ones. If you search online for images of Simplicio guitars you will find plenty of sensitively restored examples. From a brief search it looks as if originals were silver in colour and of a particular pattern (not lyre end). I would take this as a starting point and then then search the well-known makers of quality machines for a match. If the existing tuners are original it might be possible (but probably expensive) to have them re-built or to have copies built.

Rob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2016 15:59:57

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: High end tuners (in reply to f.j.w.)

If money were no object(owning a Simplicio I would assume it isn't so much) I would look into Graf, Rodgers and Scheller. Alessi are good but not consistent enough. All three will make any design you want so perhaps even replicating the tuners you already have. They make very consistent machines too.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2016 16:26:00

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: High end tuners (in reply to f.j.w.)

There is a guy who's name escapes me at the moment, but he makes custom tuners.....I'll get back if I remember.

But I would agree that rebuilding the original tuners by having a master tuner maker make new gears and rollers keep the plates and knobs. Or have the design reproduced. Money not being prohibitive to a proper restoration.

These: Robson- http://www.robsontuners.com/tuners/tuners.html

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 23 2016 1:39:07

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: High end tuners (in reply to f.j.w.)

I haven't had the best experience with Robson. I think they put all of there efforts into there business relationship with PRS. I have had quite a few sets from them over the years and have found the movement a little on the tight side.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 23 2016 7:59:21

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: High end tuners (in reply to f.j.w.)

I was thinking of someone else, but they came to mind

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 23 2016 8:33:34

Echi

Posts: 1131
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: High end tuners (in reply to f.j.w.)

I read someone saying Alessi can be inconsistent at times. I cannot comment on this as it never happened to me and heard good things. Niccolò Alessi is very reasonable though and in case of a wrong I guess he would replace the machines or fix them.
I never had a pair of Graf.
I had a nice set of Rodgers and they used to work very well but at the end of the day, at the same level of other competitors.
Rodgers tuners have a very definite look, which I like, but sometimes a find them a little too elegant for my tastes, particularly for a flamenco guitar: a little too snob, as everybody knows they are very expensive etc.
Other than that I cannot stand spending more than 350 euros for a pair of tuners, particularly if they are not hand engraved.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 23 2016 8:59:58

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: High end tuners (in reply to f.j.w.)

Make sure you have her measure the rollers, I recently had a nightmare pain in the butt helping a family friend with an old guitar. Speaking of which, where on Earth do you guys get machines with 7mm rollers instead of 10mm?????

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 23 2016 10:40:25

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: High end tuners (in reply to f.j.w.)

It was me who had the issues with Alessi on the last tuners I used of his. The gearing was ok I find this on most tuners where one or two posts seem to have a little bit of play. Perhaps I am just to picky. For the £300+ I would have to pay for the tuners though I expect that to be perfect though.

I am using Gotoh and Schaller Grandtune at the moment both of which are splendid for there relative cost.

7mm tuners are hard to find I should imagine. Try looking at steel string brands. I had a brief look but only found rollers at 6mm.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 23 2016 11:35:40

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: High end tuners (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

Make sure you have her measure the rollers, I recently had a nightmare pain in the butt helping a family friend with an old guitar. Speaking of which, where on Earth do you guys get machines with 7mm rollers instead of 10mm?????

Ricardo, send Rubner a message. They make tuners to custom specs, e.g. spacing and roller size.

Pretty decent prices as well.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 23 2016 15:58:14

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: High end tuners (in reply to f.j.w.)

Ricardo brings up n important point I had forgotten:

There was an old standard size for center between the rollers- the moder standard is here: 35mm the older standard I think was two mm smaller.

In changing tuners on guitars that are pre 1960's I've run into this situation. An older Fleta might have the smaller size so check it out by measuring the center from roller to roller.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 25 2016 1:07:33

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: High end tuners (in reply to f.j.w.)

Here are the tuners on a 1928 spruce/satinwood Simplicio for sale at Guitar Salon International, in case you haven't already checked them out. I haven't seen any just like them for sale on modern sites, but they look like they might be Bakers, which Simplicio used.

You might try emailing Guitar Salon with your question. Their prices are high and they can be kind of snooty when talking about their collector's items, unless they already have qualified your finances, but other than that they are pretty nice people.

Another couple of sources might be Yuris Zeltins, the master repairman and restorer (just Google him), and Aaron Green, a well known luthier, dealer and restorer.

http://www.aarongreenguitars.com

RNJ

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 25 2016 1:58:29

Echi

Posts: 1131
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: High end tuners (in reply to f.j.w.)

These are the last I bought.
This design is usually called Fleta as Fustero used to make them on purpose for this maker but I find them very appropriate for the Barcelona school and Simplicio as well.
Rodgers can make the same design on request, but IMHO the final result is not as nice looking.
The best thing of Rodgers is the look of the wide gear and the steadiness of the posts, as pointed out by Seden.