Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
|
|
|
Flamenco para discutir
|
You are logged in as Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic: none
|
|
Login  | |
|
   
Morante
Posts: 2182
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
|
 Flamenco para discutir
|
|
|
Franco ruined flamenco. When he was alive, Spain was closed to the outside world and flamenco was "puro".
Outside of Spain, the postwar blues scene in London spawned Alexis Korner and the Rolling Stones, while
the radio and tv brought Everly Bros etc.
When the great dictador died, the floodgates to the modern world opened and Spain changed forever.
There was an incredible musical movement in Madrid, lots of groups such as Dynamic Duo, copying badly the Everlys, Loquillo a bad copy of Elvis and the incredibly hortera Alaska etc.
Sadly artistas of the calibre of Raimundo, Manzanita or Camaron fell into this trap. Camaron met with Pachon y Humanes y co., just as Elvis met with Col Parker. Money before arte.
After Pachon, Camaron´s recording history is of flamenquito, beginning with Leyendas del Tiempo, many records were prerecorded in the studio with the voice of Pepe de Lucía, which Camarón, who was super dotado, could learn after only one listening and then record his personal style over the prerecorded backing.
Since Camerón was regarded as Dios by young gitanos, they began to copy this style, so that not even los gitanos are preserving their heritage.
Curiously, in his actuaciones en directo with Tomatito, Camaron always sang flamenco, de Chaqueta, de la Perla etc. I have seen him en directo and he was really impressionante.
Meanwhile Paco de Lucía was inventing a toque de virtuoso, which has led to hundreds of super technical guitarists who are poco flamenco.
So the apertura of España was the death knell for flamenco and the birth of flamenquito. But it led to freedom and better social conditions (until the arrival of Europa)
Good or bad? Who can say.
Discuss
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Aug. 21 2016 15:41:58
 |
|
BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
|
|
RE: Flamenco para discutir (in reply to Morante)
|
|
|
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that Franco's death (not Franco himself as dictator) ruined flamenco by resulting in the opening up of Spain to outside influences that have led to the demise of "flamenco puro" and replacing it with what you term "poco flamenco" or "flamenquito." I think I understand what you are driving at, and I guess whether that is a good thing or bad thing with regard to the development of flamenco depends on where you stand regarding "flamenco puro" vs. a more modern style of flamenco.
I will say unequivocally, though, that the opening up of Spain was a good thing, both for the Spanish and for the rest of Europe and the world. And while I tend to like the more traditional forms of flamenco, without the additional annoying instruments and the sometimes over-the-top dancing, there are many who like the modern stuff.
As a side note, however, I do think Spain made a very bad bet, not by joining the European Union, but by exchanging the peseta for the Euro. Spain lost its ability to set interest rates and depreciate its currency to increase exports and move its economy forward. The economies of the northern and southern members of the EU are too disparate to be compatible and operate under one currency. All that is moot, however, when I listen to early Paco Cepero.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Aug. 21 2016 17:20:06
|
|
Ricardo
Posts: 14825
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
|
|
RE: Flamenco para discutir (in reply to Morante)
|
|
|
Disagree. Cameron and Paco already famous and influential and experimental before. Agree that Leyendo was commercial, but the ball was already rolling since early 70's. Camaroneros don't only copy flamenquito, the copy the Perla etc same as Camaron interpreted....so all inclusive. Further, the guitar influence of PDL produced many greats and inspired those that would have been involved otherwise, namely, MORAITO, that not one single aficionado would put down in the manner you have. But not only him, many others whether you like it or not. Even Cepero got good ideas for his toque from younger PDL.
IMO, the pressure to work or make $ as pro artist, going back to Franco time and before, gradually but quickly evolved cante via BAILE situations in a sort of artificial selection that forced it's demise. Remember along with Guitar the Baile also went avant guarde in a big way, with virtuoso stuff too. The pressure to sing specific letras a specific way gradually phased out the creativity and variety that used to allow the cante to flourish, such that it only existed puro at the amature level until successive generations were no longer interested in family traditions as much as popular culture.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Aug. 22 2016 16:45:31
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts
|
|
|
Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET |
0.0625 secs.
|
Printable Version
